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Did anyone hear the S70 saga on Click and Clack (on NPR radio)?
Seems a woman with a 99 S70 had her seat heater catch on fire. Click and Clack responded by saying that they thought the S70 was one of Consumer Reports used cars to never buy, and said that they 'eat brakes' and 'go through headlights every other day.' Worst of all, she went on to say that with 70 some odd thousand miles the engine burns 4 qts of oil every two months.
Click and Clack told her to ask Volvo for a new engine and a new seat. According to them, the only reason to buy a Volvo is for longevity ... they should go 270,000 miles, other than that, they're overpriced, unreliable, and non-competitive.
I had always thought that these guys were pro-Volvo.
Anyway, who thinks that Volvo will replace the engine (the woman reported that she had all oil changes done and had records) and/or the seat?
You can hear this at cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Show
Geez, I can't wait until modern Volvos become as reliable as modern Fords...
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posted by
someone claiming to be Tom
on
Tue Feb 12 00:13 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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It's all too easy for a caller to call in and say "my engine's burning too much oil" but did anyone ask for specifics such as mileage (not just time) between adding 1 qt? No! For all we know, she drives alot and puts on many miles between oil changes.
Ask Volvo for a new engine out of warranty w/o the facts, even more rediculous. If VCNA or a dealer does anything, they'd start with what's called an "oil consumption test", not just take someones word on it because they want a new engine.
Did the seat heater REALLY start on FIRE or did an element just short? They can short and the wire will leave burn marks only seen with the seat cover removed BUT it's a very thin wire and it burns itself through long before actually starting the seat on fire.
I think the whole story is nothing more than over-exagerated BS IMO.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Phil Punxsutawney
on
Tue Feb 12 00:50 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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They mentioned the light bulbs and headlight bulbs, which all should have been taken care of under the recalls. It didn't sound like they were.
She said she has about 72k on the car. Also, she changed oil, but I didn't get the feeling she took it to a Volvo dealer or to an indy Volvo guy for work. I woulda looked to the turbo oil return line "o" ring first since it's cheap and they invariably fail, which they didn't mention.
I remember a poster here who had a seat heater short that burned a hole in his seat a couple of years ago. In a very disturbing location on the seat bottom, if you're male. Still under warranty. I don't recall he's posted recently. (Another satisfied Volvo customer!)
They said that Consumer Reports says it's the "worst" used car to buy, which is incorrect. It's "bad" but it's mostly minor problems like the lights and electrics, not, usually, motors that grenade. As Yannis correctly pointed out, there are more troublesome cars. (Mercedes MLs, Audi A6s, 960s???) Still, that's not much of a recommendation for Volvo.
-Phil
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Interesting - I've been a subscriber to Consumer Reports since college, and never have I seen a Volvo in the 'Used cars to avoid' list...
Even more interesting is that I own a V70R AWD, and other than normal usage problems (granted, it's not a Toyota), I've had nothing at all to complain about. The Consumer Reports article states specifically the AWD Volvos, and I haven't had any problems with that system either. In fact, I look forward to next week when I upgrade my vehicle with the IPD ECU Motronic upgrade and sport exhaust, which will really make this baby fly. We also own a 1995 850 turbo, and have had much more problems with it in the same time frame (i.e. when it was 3-4 years old) and also, it really shows its age in the interior, with panels shuddering all over the place, discoloration of the interior so panels and carpets are now varying shades of light beige, etc. I think their call on this vehicle is WAY too broad, and they didn't really specify that it may be only certain cars from certain factories. My Volvo mechanic hasn't reported any excessive repairs for either of theose vehicles listed, either, just the 960.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Phil Punxsutawney
on
Tue Feb 12 05:58 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Go to the April 2001 "New Cars" issue, turn to page 75, and look at the right hand column "Used Cars to Avoid" and you'll find not 1 but 6 different years/models of Volvos.
Based on remarks they've made during the last year I'd expect one or more years or Volvo models to make the list again for 2002.
-Phil Punxsutawney
'98 V70T5M 88k mi.
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Phil,
for argument's sake...why don't they [Consumer Reports] mention the fact that although a 1999 S80 did not score well in their card, a 2000 model while scoring 100% better and receiving the infamous "check" mark on the bottom, that is not mentioned in their overall review of the car. That's what pisses me off with C.R. Anyway, how much more of winter are we going to have? Not that we have really suffered, this year!
Yannis
--
2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ECU Upgrade, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17' 'Tethys' alloys
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Years ago I had an Isuzu Trooper, it was the worst vehicle I ever owned, it was in the shop all the time, and it had problem after problem. Cousumer Reports came out with a report rating it as one of the best used vehicles to buy. I put it up for sale and my phone start ringing off the hook, everyone saw the article and wanted to buy it. It sold in 1 day.
My point is, CU doesn't always get it right.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Phil Punxsutawney
on
Thu Feb 14 22:37 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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CR is not perfect, but unfortunately it's what we consumers have to go on. They receive 500,000 completed questionaires annually. While Volvo NA may know exactly how many 850-70 engines, transmissions and evaporators they're replacing each year, they're not sharing that more useful and more accurate information with us.
I don't think Volvo quality is any worse than Audi or VW, but it's quite a bit worse than Toyota.
My '98's motor hasn't grenaded but it still has more rattles than a Maracas band. That's not quality.
-Phil Punxsutaney
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posted by
someone claiming to be Phil Punxsutawney
on
Tue Feb 12 11:03 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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NMI
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I see what you mean. That's too bad, because Consumer Reports used to love Volvos, now they seem pretty much on a mission to kill. Once you get on the CU list, there's no turning back - they'll be after Volvo like they are with Geo...
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posted by
someone claiming to be Phil Punxsutawney
on
Tue Feb 12 08:11 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Fished out the April 1989 issue (no wonder my house is settling!): They had 7 Volvo years/models on the "avoid" list then, including the 240 GLT and the 760.
These things go in cycles, they liked Volvos between the '93 850 and the '97 850. They recommended the SV70 when I bought it. They seem in love with BMW at the moment. Wait until one of their editors has an accident in his Bimmer, then they'll like Volvos again!
-Phil Punxsutawney
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1989 is before I started my subscription - I started in 1991, and when the 1993 850's came out, they might as well have been heaven's own chariots. I didn't really think about the cycle theory...
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posted by
someone claiming to be Phil Punxsutawney
on
Mon Feb 11 23:48 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Unlikely, at least based on posts here. I also enjoyed Yannis' contention that Volvo is "The Best of the Worst" when it comes to un-reliability!
Ray, I think, had a V70 Cross-Country that his wife drove. He traded it for a Mercedes E-Class wagon when they became bazillionaires.
They still LIKE Volvos, read their S60 review! They'll occasionally drop that one or more of their kids received 240s to learn to drive. You should hear them about cars they DON'T like!
-Phil Punxsutawney
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That is not what my post tried to transcribe. I was being sarcastic and trying to discredit the whole "Consumer Reports wrote this and that" philosophy. I will be the first to admit that Volvo did have a tough year in MY1998 (or two if you count MY1999) with various problems, mainly idiotic electrical mishaps. I vehemently oppose any suggestions that Volvos are cars to be avoided, perhaps a couple of model years need to be scrutinized more than others. I mentioned the other brands because the way R. Chase wrote his post one would think that Volvos don't cost a lot so he/she should not expect a lot. Volvo is not unique to electric problems. There are other brands that cost (on average) a lot more than the average Volvo and they are nightmares. But "Consumer Reports" do not make a big deal of it. Like the, now, infamous "jiggly ride" (give me a break, jiggly ride...). Anyway, I don't want to get started.
Yannis
--
2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ECU Upgrade, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17' 'Tethys' alloys
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Yannis,
I think this whole "whose is better" car debate misses the point.
There are many choices because different people want and expect different things. The consumer magazines are there to provide the testers' opinions about a particular product. What you won't get from them is the long term satisfaction from ownership.
I got a Volvo because friends and family had driven them for decades. So I had plenty of useful feedback. I had no expectation that Volvo ownership was trouble free or inexpensive.
Volvos, unless Ford substantially changes them, are one of the very few cars that get BETTER with age provided they receive proper care and maintenance. So, until a magazine does a long term study, the opinions of editors should be kept in prospective.
Bryan
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Bryan,
I agree...it is just that C.R. opinion carries far more weight than it should, in all products...not just cars. C.R. has become a fad rather than just an independent testing institution.
Yannis
--
2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17' 'Tethys' alloys
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posted by
someone claiming to be Robert Chase
on
Mon Feb 11 16:41 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Nope,
Volvo chooses to run and hide from their problems rather than face them and shell out the funds for replacements. Volvo knows they make money on the service side of their vehicles and does not mind at all fucking over their customers (I'm a 1998 S70 owner too and have been fucked lots by them). Then again you get what you pay for. Volvo's are lots cheaper than their competition (up front that is). In the long term considering service and resale issues with these cars I agree with Click and Clack about being overpriced.
For the record Click and Clack IS correct the Volvo S70 is on the consumer reports avoid list for used cars.
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Really...great way to state your case.
"YOu get what you pay for"...hmmm, wonder if that's the case with the Mercedes M-class SUVs and the Audi A6 2.7Ts...cars that have scored horribly in quality and cost much more than the average Volvo...cars listed "TO AVOID" by the "experts"...
Yannis
--
2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17' 'Tethys' alloys
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posted by
someone claiming to be Robert Chase
on
Mon Feb 18 09:16 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Yannis,
Is it your mission in life to discredit every Volvo owners problems just to push another unit at your dealership?
I have noticed you have personally attacked me several times as well as several other unhappy owners here. Don't you think its rather unethical to discredit problems that you have no information on to protect yourself from angry customers "scaring away the fish"?
Oh wait. Now I understand that proverbial grain of salt. For the record Yannis is a Volvo Dealer. Im sure his views are COMPLETELY unbiased!
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Hi Yantis,
Do you think that everyone who buys a Volvo has A Million-Dollar bank account? The reason some Volvo customers are so mad about their Volvo car is that Volvo set an expectation that was not met. Volvo Marketing angle is “Safe and Reliable”. Guess what you get when a Customer buys a Volvo product with his hard-earned money and that product starts to fall apart in front of his eyes. A Customer that feels cheated a Customer who will not buy another Volvo again and a Customer who will never recommend to Friends, Family and Co-Workers to buy a Volvo. If you get enough Customers like Mr. Chase Volvo will find itself in the situation that Oldsmobile, Plymouth, Eagle and all the other Great cars that are no longer in production found themselves in “GOING OUT OF BUINESS”.
Every week I get 4 to 5 personal e-mails from Volvo owners all over this planet asking me questions on how to fix their POS Volvo. I say it is bad when a Customer can not get his car fixed from either Volvo or the Dealer. Currently I am communicating with 2 Volvo owners in New Jersey on how to correct the burning transmission fluid and solve a noise in the AWD system that the Dealer could not or would not solve or fix. And I am living in California!
As for Click & Clack, I have been listening to their Radio program for over 15 years now. I have even been to their auto shop when I lived in Cambridge Mass. And Yes I heard their comments on the Radio to the lady about her S70. And in their defense I can say that they base their opinion on their shop experience and not what some pencil jerk writes in Consumer Reports. If Click & Clack say dump the POS then it is good advice to dump the POS.
In defense of Mr. Chase. I see Mr. Chase as a customer who spent his “Hard Earned Money” on what he though was a “Safe and Reliable” car that would give him many years of happy driving miles. But what did he get instead is a POS Volvo that is in the shop all the time for problems that have to do with poor engineering, poor quality of material and poor assembly workmanship. And a Dealer/After-Market Sales Rep who does not care about his concern for the Volvo he purchased and the car’s long term reliability. I know, “Been there Done That”. My 99 XC has been to the Dealer for Warranty repairs no fewer the 30 different times over the 2 years and 9 months since I bought the car. I have had 4 meetings with After-Market sales Reps to get Volvo to repair the POS car. Great Car, NOT!
No what I see is a “Ex-Volvo Customer” who is venting his frustration with the only opening at hand. I feel his use on words is most appropriate to describe his feelings and his current situation with his car and Volvo. And to quote our previous President “I feel your Pain” Mr. Chase.
So what do you Yantis? Throw rocks at him! Wow! What a great way to win back an Upset Customer! I wish I had though of that.
Mr. Chase you are not alone. There are a lot of us Volvo Owners, who feel the way you do Cheated and Screwed! I know I have all their e-mails. My list is up to 27 and growing.
Soon to be Ex-Volvo Owner, and Hostile to Volvo “For Life”
Steven---
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posted by
someone claiming to be Robert Chase
on
Mon Feb 18 08:59 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Hey,
Thanks for the reply. I read the rest of the replys and really wish I could be there the day these guys blow a rod in the middle of traffic so I could see them sweat and grit their teeth as motorists honk at them and yell even worse obcenities than F**K at them.
One thing that I have learned in life is to accept responsibilities for my actions. I have to agree In most of my dealings with Volvo I have been an asshole to them. However one has to ponder for a moment is it easier to accept responsibility for your actions or point you finger and yell asshole? Typically Volvo did just that and avoided their responsibility for their horrible cars.
So I guess Im doomed to be the asshole thats screaming at the service counter? Not quite. As I still own the S70 its no longer my primary car (because I cant depend on it to stay running). Oddly enough Im a really nice laid back fellow to deal with at the BMW service counter. I wonder what the difference is? Perhaps if you produce a car that does what its supposed to do (Run for more than 3 months without a visit to the dealership) you get more relaxed customers. I guess its just a german thing.
Something to ponder I guess.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Phil Punxsutawney
on
Fri Feb 15 00:34 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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If someone buys a VW - like my cousin - and it makes it over 200,000 miles, the car has exceeded expectations. Next month Irv Gordon will drive his 1800S through Times Square to turn over 2,000,000. When Volvo owners see that and then their motors grenade at 140,000 like Tom Irwin's it's fair to say their cars won't have met the expectations set by Volvo.
-Phil Punxsutawney
"Lost count of the problems after #40!"
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I totally agree with yannis in his post. I have enjoyed this site for a long time, especially as it is generally free from this type of language used by Mr Chase. There are many forceful ways to express your point of view without showing your ignorance by the use of bad language. Grow up, sir, and do not insult the rest of us.
John Scales (850R 1996)
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Even more entertaining to me than the 'colorful' language of a High School Sophomore is the grammar of a 4th grader (i.e. 'lots').
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Yah the Volvo folks probably saw the "high schooler" coming and said oh boy lets *&*%$ him!
I bet the service guys love to see him coming.
Rich S.
97 BSR S3 850R
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