posted by
someone claiming to be Peter
on
Sat Mar 16 19:21 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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1999 V70 T5M, with 169,000 miles.
The oil on my dipstick seems excessively frothy. I first noticed it when checking the oil after changing oil and starting the engine to check for leaks. Crankcase is definitely not overfilled. There is no noticeable coolant loss. I pressure tested the cooling system (engine cold) and after pressurizing to 20.2 pounds, it was at 19.5 pounds after 5 minutes, so that seems OK. Using Mobil One 10W-30, same as always.
I was pleased to see someone post that head gasket problems are unlikely on this motor.
Any thoughts? I was planning to go on a 1,000 mile trip in 2 days, but now I'm thinking I had better not risk it.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Peter
on
Sun Apr 28 16:52 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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I finally finished changing the PCV. As I expected it was in perfect condition. There was no grime to be seen anywhere. Pulling the intake manifold is kind of a nightmarish job on the turbo cars with electronic throttle. Since this model has two coolant hoses connected to the manifold, and since they were dripping coolant that might have gotten into the open dipstick hole, I changed the oil after I was done and before I started the car.
Started it up and...frothy oil.
Next step is to secure an oil pressure tester that has an adapter that can screw into the oil pressure switch hole. Perhaps those oil pan o-rings are bad after all? More news in a week or so.
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The theory that rings the most true is that there's an air leak on the suction side of the oil pump. The oil uptake tube that hangs down low in the oil pan -- the section of this tube that's exposed to air -- probably where this tube connects at the top....it should have an o-ring to make a good seal. If there's a leak there, then crankcase gas (which is air with high water vapor content) gets aspirated into the oil before being pumped forward. Would explain the froth.
Past the oil pump, the oil is under positive pressure, so any leak will result in oil dribbling out, not air sucking in. Air aspiration can only happen on the suction side (between the oil in the pan and the pump).
To investigate, drain the oil pan, remove oil filter. Remove the oil pan. Make sure the oil uptake pipe is properly sealed at the top.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Peter
on
Thu May 2 15:37 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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I think you are right. I had hoped to test the oil pressure before pulling the pan, but Volvo chose to use a non-standard size for the oil pressure sensor threads, and I can't hook up a tester.
So, it looks like I will be pulling tha pan.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Peter
on
Thu Apr 4 17:58 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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I just got the oil analysis results back from the lab. No coolant or water in the oil.
I ran a compression test, and all cylinders were uniform. (The tester read 120 PSI on all 5, which seems low, but it was a cheap Chinese tester. My sense is that, if you have 5 cylinders with readings within 1 pound of each other, there is not a problem.)
When I started the engine, and watched through the oil filler cap, I could see that the cams were getting plenty of non-frothy oil. I then drove the car 5 miles and checked the oil. There were no bubbles or froth.
I'm going to change the PCV and hoses, just for good measure, but whatever caused this problem, it seems to have gone away.
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This is a guess from someone who's read many a volvo thread.
The O rings on the oil pick-up tube have come up more than once.
If said O rings in your '99 are shot could the pump be sucking air resulting in frothing?
--
Our 3rd V70
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Could it have been from an empty oil filter? There is a pint of air that could be the culprit.
--
Keeping it running is better than buying new
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posted by
someone claiming to be Peter
on
Fri Apr 12 19:04 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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Not an empty oil filter. I pre-fill the filter housing before re-installing.
And probably not weather related, because I live in the San Francisco area, and it's just not that cold.
I got the new PCV parts today and will install them tomorrow, although I will be surprised if there is any grime in there, because this is a very clean motor, with oil changes twice as often as called for.
I happened to see a YouTube video about how hardened oil seals between the oil pan and block can cause frothy oil. The narrator said that if air was being pumped in along with the oil, frothy oil would be visible through the oil filler cap hole. This does not seem to be the case. The oil looks fine when seen through the filler hole.
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As mentioned, the froth was probably caused by cold weather affecting the dipstick tube. If the weather has recently warmed up in your area and it coincides with the froth disappearing, IMHO, that confirms it is a cold weather moisture issue. That is exactly what happened in a couple of winters to both my 240 and 850 years ago.
Based on the age and mileage of your car it is makes sense and is good preventive maintenance to go ahead and overhaul the PCV anyway.
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....
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When I trouble shot a foam issue on one of our 850s, I found that the foam in the dipstick tube was very persistent.
There is a good chance that the foam was there before the oil change - did you check the oil level BEFORE the change?
When I tried to clean out the tube, I had to use several long pieces of chenille - a pipe cleaner type material used in crafting decorations.
I did get the tube clean and after several medium-length trips, the foam did not return. After a good number of short trips, the foam did return.
I think the problem was caused by the dipstick on the 5 cylinder engine being in front of the engine and does not heat up in cold weather.
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When I said that the oil was persistent - I tried several rags tied to coathangars. I could not get the foam out - each tome I tried, the dipstick came out foamy.
Long, thick, chenille was the only way I could get it clean.
What color is the foam?
If the problem was the oil wouldn't it be the color of new oil?
If I remember, my foam was light brownish.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Peter
on
Tue Mar 19 00:27 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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To give a bit more detail to the situation...I noticed bubbles in the oil immediately after changing the oil, on first startup. I do not recall if I checked the oil before changing it, but I usually do, just to see how much oil was consumed since the last change. (And if I did check it, nothing unusual appeared.)
This is a car that I rarely use, but when I do, I usually go on long trips. (25 to 600 miles)
I have never changed the PCV on this car (I bought it new, so that means no one else has changed it either), It seems like major surgery compared to changing a PCV on virtually every other car. I never worried about it, since this car has no sludge. It has always run synthetic oil, and I changed it every 3,000 miles for the first 10 years, then switched to every 5,000.
My plan, at this point, is to send an oil sample to a lab and have it analyzed. Hopefully they will say there is no coolant in the oil. If there is shown to be no coolant in the oil, perhaps removing the dipstick tube and inserting the dipstick directly into the block will show whether or not the foam is coming from the tube itself, as someone suggested. although I doubt it is in the dipstick tube, since, if I let the car sit for 2 days and check the oil, there is no froth until I start the engine.
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Are we talking air bubbles or water droplets? We all assumed the symptom you're seeing was a frothy milky oil indicative of water being blended into the oil. That's what I saw all those years ago, a tan milkshake. I still see it sometimes on any dipstick I pull. That long dipstick tube, external to the engine and on the front (cold) side is prone to gather a tiny bit of condensation, mix with the oil, and leave a trace of frothiness along its length. Nothing to worry about there, IMO.
If, on the other hand, you're dealing with persistent water in the oil after changing it or after long drives, then I agree with you that the oil analysis is a good idea.
Best,
Will
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I agree with the others - moisture. Happened to my 850 and 240. Cure is to take the car on a high speed highway trip to burn off the moisture. Try to keep the revs above 2500 rpm and run it for at least 15 minutes.
Have you serviced the PCV system?
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....
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Have you been making a lot of short trips in the car lately? I've experienced this in an 850 back when I commuted about one mile from my work.
Even if the coolant reaches operating temperature on your short commute, the oil may not and would be subject to gather condensation in the crankcase - causing your frothiness.
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Check the performance of the PCV system via the “glove test”. A little bit of frothiness may occur if the PCV isn’t evacuating the moisture out of the crankcase especially if the car is doing short haul driving.
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Current rides: 2005 Volvo S80 2.5T, 2003 Volvo V70 2.4NA, 1973 Volvo 1800ES (getting ever closer to road worthiness)
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