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I replaced the fuel pump in my 1994 850 a couple of weeks ago. Yet the car died w/o warning at a license office parking lot today.
It was the classic "starts-dies, starts-dies, starts-dies" that's typical of pump relay failure.
I jumpered the relay 15 to 87 and still got no fuel at the rail.
Had it towed <1 mile home. Initially assumed that the pump was junk (Autozone special). However, I just applied 12v power to the pump lead and it fired up immediately sending fuel up to the rail.
I swapped relays, jumpered it again and still I get nothing.
I hear nothing from the pump when I turn the key. Seems like something else is wrong.
Any thoughts on the problem when the Pump and Relay both check out?
I really hate diagnosing electrical issues, but aside from confirming pump wire continuity, I'm not sure what else to look at.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I'm back to the original problem, and I can report that after driving the car for 15 minutes, I experienced a stall (exiting a parking lot), followed by immediate restart.
I also confirmed that there was never anything wrong with the original fuel pump.
Bottom Line, I seem to have an intermittent power-to-the-pump problem that I can't isolate to the fuel pump relay
Here's my problem timeline and tests:
February 2 - Car dies on highway with no-restart
Confirmed lack of fuel at rail
Swapped a known-good pump relay and jumpered the relay (15 to 87) with no change
Mistakenly confirmed bad fuel pump - replaced with new unit
Car restarted after 20 minutes of starting attempt with new pump
February 21 (Friday)
-Car fails to restart after visit to license office
-Confirmed lack of fuel pump operation and no fuel at rail
-Jumpered relay (15-87) with no change.
-Towed home (Didn't mention that after coming off the tow truck, I couldn't get the gearshift out of Park... took a few minutes of fiddling before it released...)
-Confirmed that new pump "works" with external power.
-Swapped relays
February 22 (Saturday)
-Car starts up and runs without making any actual repairs
February 23 - start of the "LMS" problem - no start condition for several days
-Confirmed 12v power to Fuse 2
-Fuel pump function is audible
-Confirmed fuel at rail
-"shuffled" the "J" relays in the fuse assembly. 105-106-107
March 1 - cleaned plugs and oiled cylinders - car starts and runs normally
-Car stalled w/o warning (and restarted w/o incident)
-Re-tested original fuel pump and confirmed that it was not the original problem.
------
I've definitely confirmed:
(1) the pumps (original and replacement) are mechanically and electrically sound
(2) fuel pump relay is good (swapped with known-good units)
(3) engine grounds have solid continuity
(4) no damaged wires around the fuse/relay panel or at the pump
I'm fairly sure:
(1) #2 fuse is good, and has confirmed 12v power
(2) Overload relays (105-107) are working (I shuffled them multiple times)
I don't know:
(1) That pump has 12v power at #2 fuse when it has "failed"
(2) That the overload relays (105-107) are always functioning
Aside from a ground issue, Overload Relay (106) seems to be most related to the symptoms. If the circuit overloads, it shuts down the pump circuit..?
So what causes the overload? An electrical short? Maybe... The car still has odd electrical issues.
The moon roof will open by itself often (but not only) while braking or on rough pavement... although it hasn't happened lately.
Last summer, Fuse #3 was drawing several amps and draining the battery. I pulled the fuse and there were no further issues (everything still seemed to have power too... I put the fuse back in and there have been no further problems.
I've never been able to find any bad wires or connections under the dash or in the engine compartment...
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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The problem re-appeared but is gone again...
I began investigating the dash switches and sunroof area and did not find anything odd. Shortly afterwards, the problem re-appeared... maybe coincidental, maybe not.
While the pump was powerless, I confirmed that I get 12v across the #2 fuse even when the pump is not working. I pulled and re-inserting the #2 fuse and confirmed that the pump relay "clicks".
I went back to check power at the pump and was initially unable to get a power reading from the main lead (recall that power is only sent there for about 30 seconds or so).
I rigged up my multimeter so that I could see it from the front and confirmed 12V at the pump connector when I switched the ignition.
Unfortunately (for diagnosis), as soon as I plugged the pump back in, it started running again. So I can't be sure that there isn't a problem between the fuse panel and the pump...
Interestingly, I noticed that the female end of the connector was slightly blackened - as though it was shorting. maybe something, maybe nothing
What I did find was that the connector at the pump was not secured to anything and that the rear shock mount right next to the plug was completely shot - the rubber separated from the mount. I had a good spare, so I replaced the mount and re-secured the plug to the body with a zip tie.
I am unsure how long the rear shock mount was bad. Since buying this car a year ago, I've now had to replace all four shock mounts. The driver's rear mount was really bad and squeaking horribly. I replaced that side when the car was "immobile" last week. I did not realize that the passenger side rear mount was also bad until I got the car back out earlier this AM.
A Working Theory...
I suspect that the busted shock mount right next to the pump connector *may* be a factor. There's not a clear 1:1 match but there are some physical similarities in three of the events...
The stall this AM was after I went over a bump exiting the drive-thru's parking lot. There was a big "hump" at the license office parking lot too. The stall that happened in early February was as my wife was exiting the highway and stopping. All of these environments would be stressing the shock mounts. A completely broken mount would be shifting around. if the wiring was being contacted by the shock mount, it might have cause a short that tripped the overload relay...
The weirdness with the sunroof also seemed to happen while braking or driving on rough streets.
Not everything matches. The re-appearance half an hour ago while I was testing the panel switches doesn't fit. I couldn't find any obvious evidence of physical damage to the wires or connectors by the broken shock mount. I don't think that the sunroof power is anywhere near the fuel pump power or the rear shock mount. Until early February, rough streets and braking from highway speeds had never caused any issues with the fuel system.
Thanks to a link to the Volvo Wiring schematics from B.B., I was able to confirm that the sunroof and fuel pump share a common harness connector up near the passenger A-Pillar. It is plausible that the sunroof and pump electrical problems are related.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Your 'blackened' female plug at the pump sounds like the real culprit. For trouble shooting the pump wires, all you need to do is pull out the pump relay and jumper 15&87. With the key on, you will have power to the pump at all times.
Clean the leads to the pump and see if there are any wiring breaks that could be subject to bumps.
The connector you refer to under the dash is a very large one and should not have anything to do with either the SR or pump.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Admittedly, it feels like an entirely too-convenient explanation.
We just got sprayed with freezing drizzle, which will likely put further diagnosis on hold for a couple more days.
Really wishing I had a warm garage to work in...
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Here's a video of the "Weird Crank".
This latest problem appeared the day after the no-power-to-the-pump problem "fixed" itself.
Maybe the starter is bad, maybe it's something else.
I don't see how the electrics to the pump could be related to the starter. Maybe there's nothing wrong with the starter, but this weird crank appeared for the first time two days after the pump lost power w/o warning. Quite a coincidence.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for weighing in further. I've been laid-up sick for the last few days, so today's the first chance I have to get back under the hood with some tools.
Okay, I'll take you guy's word on it. It did not sound like this when the overall problem first began, but I gave it another go last night and the battery is definitely discharged
I put the car on the charger last night and will take a look after breakfast. I'll be really annoyed if this is my third failed battery for three cars in the last 6 months...
Klaus may be right about the fuel. It smells pretty "gassy". I had not heard that flooring the pedal switches off the injectors... interesting. Fuel is definitely getting up to the injector rail. I haven't confirmed anything further.
I think Bill may be right with the fire issue, but I'll go ahead and pull the plugs and check the sparks for wetness.
Bill also pointed me to an excellent source for the wiring diagrams, so I'm checking that as well. Even if this is LMS, I'm still no closer to understanding the fuel pump failure issues
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Now that it started, I suppose the car has always sounded like this, it normally fires up so quickly, I've not usually noticed the sound of the crank. Regardless, it is very unlike the cranking sound in my c70...
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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What weird crank?
The starter is fine.
You're missing spark or fuel I'd guess.
Are the plugs wet or dry?
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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After an overnight charge and a couple unsuccessful attempts at the classic "LMS" fix, I pulled the plugs. The car was *almost* starting but it never did more than a slight firing...
#1 was wet-ish, #2-#5 were fairly dry. I cleaned them all and added a little bit of motor oil to each cylinder.
The injector seal on #5 is leaking, which is source of the fuel that I've been smelling.
So.. After re-assembly, the car fired up successfully and ran. It smoked like heck, but finally evened out.
I let it run for a good 10 minutes, took it on a small test drive, shut it down, and restarted it a couple times.
The original problem is still there, but it appears that the no-start condition has been corrected.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Do the fuel pressure regulators ever go bad on these car?
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Yes, they do. But usually that results in a very rich, 10-5 second start. Easy to diagnose by pulling off the FPR vacuum line and looking for gasoline. Also, there will be a puff of black smoke from the exhaust when the engine starts.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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That doesn;t sound 'strange' to me. Get your battery up to full charge. Remove and clean the spark plugs as they are probably all wet.
The oil pressure light is top row far left.
It really sounds like LMS to me. If you tried to start it without pushing the gas pedal completely to the floor, you flooded the cylinders again.
The 'pedal to the floor' will turn off the injectors during engine start. You want to run the starter continuously for 30 seconds - the oil light should then go out or flicker. At that point oil should have migrated to the rings and boosted compression enough to start firing. Wait for a few minutes to let the starter motor cool off, and then start the engine.
OR, with the spark plugs out, add a tablespoon of oil to each cylinder and replace the clean spark plugs. Use a drinking straw dipped into an oil can so that about 2 inches of oil is in the straw. Plug the top with your finger and transfer the end of the straw to the spark plug hole - no mess.
Remember, once the engine starts, let it run for 5 minutes or so before shutdown.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Okay, the pedal/cranking thing didn't work at all.
I pulled the plugs, cleaned them, and added some oil. And... the car fired right up... It was quite smokey, but it cleaned itself out eventually and idled very well.
I shut it down and restarted it several times, then took it on a test-run to the local breakfast place.
I sat in the drive-through for quite some time, and as I was leaving the lot, the car stalled w/o warning.
Very lucky in that it started right back up. Whatever the original problem is, it's still happening...
At least it starts up. Unfortunately, it is not reliable enough for use.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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First thing I thought of was "that battery sounds like it's dead" too. Or at least not cranking at full speed.
Our 850 has always taken close to 3-5 seconds of crank time. But it turns over much faster than that.
--
"Differences of opinions should be tolerated, but not if they're too different' - Sharon Craig
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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There's three fuel system relays, any of which can kill the fuel supply.
Two of the relays are in the main fuse block:
Marked "103", 2/23 is the fuel pump relay that switches +12VDC from Fuse 2 to run the fuel pump
marked "106", 2/31 is the overload relay that switches power to Fuse 2 via the ignition switch
These two relays enable the fuel pump, both have to work and fuse 2 needs to be good.
The third relay, 2/32 is located above the radiator and is called the main fuel relay, and it's function is to enable/disable the injectors.
(It doesn't run the fuel pump.) When it quits the injectors quit.
It's a safety item.
If you don't hear the fuel pump, then focus on the pair of relays in the main fuse block and F2 needs to have 12 volts. Continuity checks for relay points
wont confirm that the old worn points can supply enough amperage to run the fuel pump. Use your multimeter to check DC voltages.
Thus measure Fuse 2 when the ignition is on and power should be at the fuel pump.
You should see +12VDC between Fuse 2 and any ground terminal.
You should see +12VDC at the two pole fuel pump connector in the trunk.
Bill
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Bill, thanks. that's great information.
Yesterday (after the car had sat overnight), it fired right up. Today, it cranks strangely and almost fires, but never actually starts up.
Following your advice, I can confirm power to the pump, fuel at the rail, and 12v across #2 fuse. Whatever is going on, it seems to shift around quite a bit... The electrical gremlins have returned...
Unfortunately, I can't locate a relay #106.
Left-to-right, there's a twin hella relay, fuel pump (103), and a twin lighting control relay. I believe that these are marked as 102, 104, 103, 105, and 108. Under the dash, there are several relays, but none of these are marked as "106"
Between those relays and the fuse panel there are three four-prong "J" relays.
Above the radiator there's a fan control relay, and an unidentified grey relay with four bullet connectors. I assume this the injector safety relay, you mentioned. I can confirm that it "clicks" when I switch the ignition.
I can also confirm good solid ground between the motor and the body.
I also unscrewed and lifted the fuse/relay panel and checked the connections underneath. No loose connections or damaged wiring. There were two clipped wires that I traced back to an old car-phone setup, but these were dead-ends and have been removed.
If you recall, this is the car with the self-opening sunroof and the #3 fuse that kept draining the battery last summer.
I still haven't traced the sunroof issue, but removing the #3 fuse stopped the battery drain.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I just looked through my spare parts dept and found two different "103" relays
a green one: Volvo 9434138 / 898769000 fuel-pump controller 4 pin relay
a yellow one: Volvo 9434013 / 898770000 fuel-pump controller 5 pin
maybe the yellow one is for a 740? a puzzle
I have a request that if you do determine that the RSR relay is crap, then you send it to me for an autopsy, I'm thinking a few of the relays should be changed at some point since their failure shuts down the engine.
It might be possible to get a clue about the health of relay points by measuring the points resistance with high precision (with a wheatstone bridge)
I'd expect increasing resistance with wear/age reaching some value where
the higher resistance accelerates the points destruction.
Volvo certainly wasn't expecting a service life of forever with the relays.
This is also a good reason to use old junkyard relays with caution since they
are very likely to be trouble, and may even be the very reason that sent the car to the junky in the first place.
Bill
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I'm moderately sure the relays are functioning.
I've got both green and red 103 relays available. The Red 103 was in my C70 and I swapped it to the 850 trying to diagnose the fuel pump problem back in Early February.
On Friday, I had zero fuel pump operations with 103 jumpered, (15 to 87)and with both the red and green relays in place. The car's original 103 relay is running my C70 without problems.
The FI relay on the radiator seems to be switching, but I didn't test continuity.
On Saturday, pump operation was restored and the car fired right up.
On Sunday, the pump kept working but it started to crank "strangely" and never actually fired up. I can smell fuel and confirm voltage at #2 fuse. I'm not sure the best way to confim fire on a whiteblock engine. The plugs are difficult to access, but perhaps I can grab and old wire/plug and hook it to the dizzy cap. Don't know a better way w/o doing minor surgery...
Any thoughts on the cam position sensor?
I still suspect that this whole thing traces back to whatever is going on on the #3 fuse circuit.
repairmanjack
sbcglobal ' net
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I looked at the schematic again. If the overload relay quits then you will also lose interior lighting. Are you ignoring additional symptoms?
So if in fact you are losing fuel, maybe its the 2/32 relay by the radiator.
Listening to clicks is no good- you can try jumping pins 86 and 87.
That will send +12VDC to the injectors.
Better yet, you might just pull an injector connector and look for a constant 12vdc on one of the pins with the other meter lead on the intake manifold.
(Make sure the key is in the run position / KP2)
The injectors have a constant +12VDC and are fired with a switched ground from the ECU.
Don't you want the schematic?
The plugs are easy to access, just a few Torx screws to get the cover off, then you can verify spark. The access screws in mine were mangled when I got the car,
so I got new ones and wound up tapping the holes and putting a dab of never-seez on the new screws so they come loose easily.
Bill
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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lighting seems okay, but I'll re-check. daylight is a poor time to notice if the dome light is on.
Happy to get the schematic. Thanks!
email is:
repairmanjack
sbcglobal
net
(obscured to avoid spambots)
I'll jumper the 2/32 relay tomorrow and see what happens
I'll pull the plugs eventually. It's cold, the car's w/o shelter, so I really don't want to take things apart under the hood until I've exhausted the easy stuff.
What do you make of the cranking behavior in my posted video?
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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If you can find an inductive pickup timing light (pickup clamps over an ignition wire) you could determine if the ignition system is producing spark.
I have a 1998 V70 that experienced lawnmower syndrome a few months ago - after lots of cranking it finally started, ran rough, then smoothed out and has been fine ever since.
Slightly corroded electrical connectors could be a culprit - check the connectors for CPS, IAC, MAF, etc.
My son had a 1994 850 with about 170K miles. One day it would not start - a new CPS fixed it. Im sure there is a way to check the CPS signal - do you know anyone with an oscilloscope ?
Would the OBD diagnostics on a 1994 have a code for CPS ?
Can you approach the problem like this:
1. Check for correct pressure at fuel rail while cranking.
2. Check that injectors are pulsed regularly while cranking.
3. Check that plugs fire regularly while cranking.
If all 3 conditions above are satisfied and the engine doesnt start then compression could be bad - perhaps due to lawnmower syndrome.
Mike
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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The CPS on my 1998 C70 quit, but didn't throw a code until I put on a replacement and fired it up. If that's the case here, it won't show a code until it's fixed.
Reportedly, I can check continuity across the CPS pins. Either 0 or infinite means trouble... I'll post back when I get it tested tonight.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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You need the wiring diagram TP3907202 Its a 205 page PDF file with schematics
and diagrams to locate components. Whats your email ?, I'll send it to you.
Page 64 of the PDF file (Which shows page 59 of the Volvo document ) is the
locator for the fuel system components. It shows the main fuse block with the fuses and two rows of relays. The page before has the schematic.
Even more plain is on PDF page 12 (Volvo page 5) where all of the relays are identified.
You'll see that the relays are numbered in order starting in the center of the car towards the windshield and progressing towards the drivers side
101/102 is the first a twin size rectangular relay
103 is a small square relay and
104 is half of a twin size relay ending that row
the front row closest to the fuses is 3 small relays 105, 106, 107, and 108 is part of the twin relay 104
101-102 103 104
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105 106 107 108
Does that make sense to you? It's easier to look at the Volvo book!
Are you sure that you have spark? Your issue is a puzzle since you sometimes don't hear the fuel pump, but have fuel at the rail. If that's the case
then the pump is working and maybe the injector relay by the radiator is bad.
What exact relay socket did you try a jumper? There's 3 relays.
If you hear the pump, AND have fuel at the rail, and it doesn't start- try jumping the relay 2/32 Pins 3 and 4, This is the relay above the radiator.
according to the schematic
pin 3 of the socket = #87 on the relay (Green wire) and
pin 4 on the socket = #30 of the relay (One of the red wires)
The key is to get +12V on the green wire that is the +12 for the injectors.
While you're at it, confirm that the intake manifold ground is OK/tight etc.
If that is off, you might get the weird hosing that you're suffering.
Hopefully you don't have water in the fuel.
Bill
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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ah, so Relay 106 is one of the three I have marked as "J" I shuffled those about, but didn't try jumpering any of them.
I recognize the others from your description.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Take a look at fuse #2, it has fuel pump and alarm system.
Then check continuity.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Fuse #2 is good, 12v across the contacts with the key switched to KPII.
As noted, after I applied power to the pump on Friday PM and confirmed it was functional. On Saturday, the car started up just fine. Now it has a bizzaro crank and refuses to start.
Electrical gremlins my *favorite* problem) have returned...
The only up-side, is that I managed to trace the squeaky rear suspension problem to a worn-out shock mount. If I can get the car running again, it ought to ride nice a quiet...
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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That is why I don't like new cars, they have more electronics than displacement.
Lawn mower syndrome????? Cranks over like there is no compression in the cylinders? With the gaspedal on the floor, crank the starter until the oil light goes out. Stop. Foot off the gas, crank again and see if it starts. It will run rough for a few minutes, but then smooth out.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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well.. it cranks like it's not really cranking... it'll fire for a fraction of a second and then nothing. It doesn't seem to "catch" and ever fire up... It's not that dry crank you get when your timing belt is busted
This is a "new" problem, that happens to have appeared concurrent to a failing fuel pump.
I'm sure there's something else, another variable, that I'm not recognizing.
Agreed. Today is the first time that I really miss the simplicity of my 1968 130.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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You managed to start a cold engine and then shut it off. Read the following:
https://www.brickboard.com/AWD/volvo/1381779/S70/easy_fix_lawn_mower_syndrome.html
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Hello Jackal,
Yup, could be lawnmower syndrome. Or might even be a failing starter. Been through both at the same time lately...:)
If it started well when cold but not when warm it could be the starter bendix giving up the ghost. Check out my recent thread. Good news is I finally got my car started!
http://www.brickboard.com/AWD/volvo/1586439/850/hard_start_now_update.html
Some other related thoughts. It wouldn't hurt to check your coil and cam position sensor for voltage. Ignition wires good?
Good luck and happy reading!
J
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I've not had prior experience with LMS, but I'm not sure the symptoms are entirely, but it's worth ruling it out.
I followed Klaus' suggestion. I'm not even sure my Oil light was ever "on". Something further to investigate. It cranks oddly. If it keep it up, I'll record it and post a video. I fear that the starter is dying...
While cranking, I am definitely hearing the pump running and after an extended crank, I can smell fuel.
I'll check continuity on the CPS when i get home. 0-Ohms is a bad unit, right?
Is a bad CPS consistent with intermittent pump operation? I need to explain why the pump failed to run and then came back for no reason.
I still don't have a good explanation for why the pump just "quit"... It didn't *seem* to run in-tank with applied external power, but I couldn't bench-test the old pump because it lost a terminal spade when I was removing.
When I replaced the pump, I recall that it took me several tries to get the new pump working - much longer than when I replaced my C70 fuel pump. I was close to exploring other factors, when the car suddenly fired up. It ran just fine for two weeks before the new one cut out on me.
The car had a complete tune-up last March, right after I bought it. New plugs, wires, rotor, filters, PCV system, knock sensor kit and vacuum elbows.
A year later and I'm now out over $300 with two tow trucks an a replacement pump... This car getting to be a bad investment...
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I agree. It probably isn't LMS. Regarding my car, I inadvertently brought on the problem due to the starter being bad in my car. When it finally started, I moved it a few feet into the garage when cold so I could work on it. Didn't realize at the time that I was setting myself up for LMS...
Could be the starter. Try to determine if it starts fine cold but not when warm. If so, could be the starter bendix is wearing out.
There should be ohms at the CPS. Forget how much but not much.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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it was in the 70s when it started up. but 40s when the started stopped cranking properly.
I suspect the starter is part of the right track...
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I meant when the engine was cold or warmed up from driving. Not the ambient temperature. My car would start on the first or second crank with engine/starter cold. After driving for 10 minutes or more it became very difficult to restart. It did sound somewhat like your video. Best way I can describe it is cranking but not catching??
BTW - Just curious... Why did you replace your pump? Was it bad or was it preventative maintenance? Curious because my 95 has 234k and the pump is original. During my issue I swapped fuel pump relays but not the pump. It is my understanding that Volvo pumps usually last a long time. My 90 240 had 300k on its original main pump when I sold it and was still going stong. I did, however, replace the in-tank pump at about 195k.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Starter not catching... yeah that is what it "feels" like...
The pump quit a couple weeks back. All three of my car's have lost pumps in the around 200k, so it's not usual for the area. Still.. the PO that he replaced the pump, but it looked like the original one to me.
When the pump first failed, I tried applying some direct power to the lead to confirm good function, but got nothing. I replaced it with an overpriced aftermarket pump from the local parts shop. Note that I don't usually buy key parts locally, but had to make an exception.
Anyway, it took a while to get it going with the new pump. However, it was working fine until last Friday when the pump lost power.
Unfortunately, the Friday problem is very similar to the earlier problem, so now I wonder if it was the same issue all-along and I just got lucky when replacing the pump.
Unfortunately, I managed to pull-out one of the power spades on the original pump, so I can't bench-test it.
The starter crapping out suddenly is rather concerning. Very coincidental..
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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You got spark? are plugs wet after cranking? Is the RSR relay good, it turns on injectors? Just a few easy checks that come to mind. Mike
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Wish the plugs were really that easy to get to... I'm now getting fuel to the rail (confirmed by several checks at the schrader valve), but I can't confirm that the injectors are firing.
I'm not sure this car has a radio suppression relay, unless you mean the grey relay above the radiator. It has bullet connectors and clicks when I switch ignition.
So...
Friday, the pump couldn't get power.
Saturday, it started up just fine.
Sunday, the car cranks oddly and refuses to start up.
I'm wondering if my Crank Position Sensor might be an issue. The car's got just over 200k with a rebuilt head. My 98 C70's CPS died christmas eve two years back at 220K...
I still can't shake the sense that there's some loose wire somewhere shorting things out at random...
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