Can anyone speak to snow driving performace? I am thinking of buying an 87 850 T5 wagon with 59K miles.

I live in the rocky mountains and drive a winding canyon daily, to and from work. I have always been a 4x4 or AWD car owner (trucks or Subaru's) and have had no problems dealing with snow on roads or snow packed roads. Studded snows have also always been the norm as well.

I figured I'd put a pair of studded snow's on the 850 and it would all be fine. Does anyone believe this is a mistake?

To ALL:

thansk you to the many folsk who commented to my reuqest for information on the tires..... here's what has occured.

I bought a 1994 850 turbo instead of the 97 T5. The guy trying to seel the T5 had covered up the fact that his car was a SALVAGE titled car and had been restored from an accident. BTW, I foud thisout by running the VIN number on CARFAX.COM - a pretty useful resource.

I bought Gislevad Nordfrost II's for the 850 and I went studless on the recommendation fthe tire dealer. Overall I am pleased, although the gradual slope out of my neighborhood is not maintained and presents somewhat of a problem. THANK GOD for WINTER MODE....it makes it work somewhat.

While I am VERY pleased woth the performance of the Gislevads on 95% of my driving (slush, snow packed, iced or dry roads), I think the most challenging part of my 30 mile commute to work everyday is the first 2/10th's of a mile that is not plowed or maintained in any way.

I will most likely go with studded snows inthe future. Although I must say the Gislevads are the most decadent tire I have had the pleasure of driving in the snow overall....albeit that they cost a furtune compared to other tires.

thansk to all who commented!!!

Jack

What Tires are you compairing the Gislevads to if they are costing you a furtune??

I have a V70R (AWD) and an 850GLT (2WD) and I live in Canada so I have a good deal of snow driving experience.

Although the 850GLT is good in snow it is nowhere near as good as my V70R. Given your weather pattern and your previous Subaru ownership I don't think you will enjoy the T5 in bad weather. I am expecting to replace my 850 eventually with another AWD of somekind.

I too have begun to consider trading in my 4X4 (Jeep Grand Cherokee) for a 850 or V70 wagon. My very rusty recall of physics laws, tells me that there is no way that 2 driving wheels are as good as 4. However, that is only true as long as one wheel does not lose traction.

On my 4x4 you can run the centre diffential either open or closed. The common position to run has the centre differential open, and therefore if one tire begins to slip, all power is directed to it. This is the same as a FWD car with no TRAC system. As I understand it, TRAC applies the brakes to the spinning wheel, to match speeds left to right. On the 4x4, if I close the centre differential, I can re-distribute the engine power so that one wheel on each axle has to lose traction. This should approximate the same amount of traction as a FWD with TRACS, although it is side to side, and not front to back. Two driving wheels is two driving wheels.

The difference is; the traction up to (but before) loss of traction at one or two wheels. In that case, there are 4 driving wheels, a definite advantage.

For the kind of driving that I do here in the Pacific NorthWest, (when its ugly, its reallly ugly.... snow comes as freezing slush, but mostly lots of rain) I think the trade off with the better handling, acceleration, etc, especially on the mountain roads may leave tip the balance in favour of a wagon over a truck, especially when I consider the year round use of the vehicle on mountain roads. But I am still thinking about it.

If you get a V70 with AWD, or any of the more sophisticated AWD systems (Mercedes, BMW), I think you can do better than in a 4x4. For instance the V70R that I have has TRACS on the front wheels (admittedly only effective at slow speeds) plus limited slip on the rear so whatever wheels have grip they will be getting some torque to drive them. The Mercedes and BMW systems use the ABS to apply the brakes on any spinning wheels, again that will direct torque to whichever of the other wheels have grip (1,2,3 or all 4)

I too live in the Pacific Northwest, just north of you in BC and have found my 850 turbo to be a decent car in the snow. I live in the city so we don't get a whole lot of snow, sometimes we don't even get any snow on the streets when we're lucky so I don't know if the conditions I face are comparable to yours where you are. In fact, I have yet to even get a set of snow tires for my car ever since I purchased the it in '95. Light snow is not a problem--just drive carefully and don't try to defy the laws of physics is what I've always kept in mind.

Jack,

I know that others will call me a heretic.

I put a set of Dunlop DS-1 snow tires on my S70 and the performance has been more than adequate on snow, ice and wet and dry pavement. The set w/steel rims and covers was less than 1/2 the price of the Gislaveds.

The ride is a bit harsher than the stock all seasons, and it f you floor the pedal you'll leave some behind. But, for the price and security, I'd be lying if I said that they aren't a great deal.

Have fun!

Bryan

Jack, I drive an 855 Turbo in Switzerland and in the North of Italy and the snow driving is not a problem.

I use four snow tires (Good Year Grip Winter 185/65 R 15 H).

My car has the TRACS (TRAction Control System): what about the car that you're thinking to buy? I think the TRACS is very important for snow driving performance. Bye.

The 850's snow performance is excellent. It's a swedish car, right?! I agree with the others, you HAVE to use 4 studded tires to minimize the risc of spinning off the road... And you better put the pair with the best "pattern" on the rear wheels to avoid that the back of the car skids out and puts you into trouble. It's better to have the best possible control instead of the best possible acceleration on snow or ice.

Use as narrow tires as possible, they cut through the snow and also saves you some gas on "regular" roads. Look at rallycars!

I use Gislaved NordFrost on my 850, and it's superb! Nokian Hakkapelitta II (finnish) is also good. Swedish car - swedish/finnish tires - good winter performance...

Did I mention that I'm from Sweden...? :)

Stefan- here in N America we seldom have snow on the road for more than 24 hrs at a time due to heavy salting, unlike in Scandinavia where you allow the snow to compact. I like your approach much better, and it makes sense to use studs there. But over here, where most driving really occurs on pavement, not snow, I think they are a mistake, at least for the 850. On a 740, I think I might use studs, though it really depends on where you live. I have been very happy with studless Gislaveds, Hakka 1's and Hakka Q's. Never felt the need for studs even in Snowy Canada.

Just be sure to use 4 identical tires! And narrow is better.

Jack,

I drive an 95 854 Turbo with 205/50/16 snow tires (Blizzaks and Michelin Aplinas) and do fine in the Sierras in the winter. Two cautions: first, remember that you don't have a lot of ground clearance and busting through berms with this car will be nothing like what you've done with a SUV. Deep snow will find you driving what amounts to a snow plow. Second, if you choose to run a wide tire (e.g., 205s) you will encounter significant understeer. The advice to look into 185s is good - a lot less flotation.

I've never driven studded tires but it does seem a compromise on wet or dry pavement. The only advantage would seem to be on icy roads.

Still, the T5 is a fine choice - one that I wish I'd made when I bought mine.

OK Jack, I'll stir things a bit just for the hell of it.

You can't beat four snow tires. But I'm not sold on studs as in my experience (maybe more years ago than I remember)the added ice/packed snow traction was not enough to off set the loss due to the studs on dry road.

A rather nasty panic stop to avoid one of my fellow drivers, almost sent me on a trip I didn't want. A few experiments later,with and without studs with the same car, indicated there was sugnificantly less dry road traction with the studded tires.

Of course all this testing was done without any hight tech equipment so form your own conclusions.

It all depends on what tires you choose to put on it. I struggled with the oem tires that came with my 850 wagon, but once I put on 4 good Gislaveds Norfrost snows, the car tracked like a train and did very well in snow. During the more than 200k miles I put on the wagon I have also put Hakka 1's and most recently Nokia's Hakka Q's. All do very well in snow. I travel about 35-40k /year in N. New England and Eastern Canada and see plenty of late night snowstroms.

I should also mention- go with 185/65/15's if you can. They really do lots better than the wider tires. In all my wintery miles, I have never once thought I'd prefer the AWD. The FWD does fine provided you know how to drive one and understand it's limitations w/resp to understeer, etc.

Get the T5! It's a great ride.

claude

Mistake? yes! Use 4 studed snows!

I've always regarded my '95 850 turbo as a great car in the snow--within it's limits. The transmission has a great winter mode program that softens up the shifting and starts the car in 2nd or 3rd gear (I forget which gear) that takes care of wheelspin. In fact, where I live since we only get maybe a few inches of snow at most in the winter, I have yet to feel the need to slap on some snow tires. But just driving cautiously and remembering the good old laws of physics, I've found that my 850 has been a trusty friend in the snow.

Get 4 studded snows, not just 2. With 4 good snows, especially studded (illegal in this state for years) and it should do fine.