Hello Folks,

I've got a strange front end whine. It's vehicle-speed-linked, not engine-speed-linked.

It started when my alternator died (see here: http://www.brickboard.com/AWD/index.htm?id=1344154&show_all=1).

Originally (before I realized it was related to vehicle speed, not engine speed related)I thought it was the replacement alternator I put on, being a lesser quality (than Bosch) aftermarket unit.

I now see it has nothing to do with the new alternator and believe it may have been caused by the way the tow truck operator pulled the car up onto the tow truck deck.

He wrapped a chain around the front driver's side control arm (and possibly the driveshaft) behind the wheel and used a winch to pull the car up onto the deck.

I knew before all this alternator stuff that I needed to replace at least one of my tie rod ends, and even purchased them from FCP - I just haven't had time to get them on yet.

I also at one point had myself convinced that the noise was one or more of my wheel bearings going... now I'm not sure.

The local roads have been terrible and so I'm pretty sure, combined with the tie rods problem, that my alignment is off - though it still drives pretty well.

Is it possible something was really broken/bent during the tow truck incident? What should I be looking for?

Is it possible that the CV/driveshaft is making this whining noise?

Is it possible that the noise is actually coming from the tires, due to mis-alignment?

Any other suggestions?

Correct, the rear tow point is that little loop at the spare tire well. The front tow point is behind a cover in the lower part of the driver's side bumper. The cover comes off and viola!

Using the control arm could have put additional stress on the bushings and need to be checked. If out of alignment, the bearings get a lot of stress and that could be your latest problem. Drive shafts don't make noise, but if bent will have your wheel bouncing down the road :)

When you have a choice, always call a towing company that will tow your car on the bed of the truck.
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My name is Klaus and I am a V ♂ lv ♂ holic.

Anyone have a description for how to check the bushings KlausC describes?
Can I do this with a pry bar?
With the wheels on the ground or off?
What exactly would I be looking for?

I have a feeling I'm looking at a front end alignment (after I put the tie rod ends in) and I'll hope my whine goes away.

If not I guess I'll take it all apart again and put new bearings in. I hate to throw new bearings at it without being pretty sure it's going to fix the problem as they're kind of expensive. I've had a run of fixes lately that have really piled up for this car...

Such is the first year I guess... My experience has been that the first year you take on an older car there's usually lots to do for the first year or so while you catch up with the POs misguided maintenance regime. I hope it slows down soon.

I've gotten through some of the work I wanted to do for this and wanted to report.

I've changed the tie rod ends, but have not had the car in for an alignment yet. I got bogged down doing other things, and I think I'll get it in this week, but the alignment doesn't seem too bad the way it is.

I have changed the wheel bearing on the pass side, where it seems the noise is coming from, but that did nothing to alter the sound at all.

While I was in there I ran into a break in the flex hose and also a tear in the caliper piston dust boot, so I changed them both on that side (pass). While I had the brakes apart I beat the rust ridges off the rotor with a hammer.

I'm anxious to get the wheel bearing done on the driver's side now to rule that out. I have half a feeling that the noise is coming from that bearing (where it was towed up onto the truck deck) and travelling to the other side of the car where I hear it. When I pulled the wheel bearing out of the pass side, it basically fell apart, so I guess I maybe was slowly dying anyway. And holy jesus was it stuck in the steering knuckle!

Actually, lately the noise has really sounded more like it's in the 'middle' of the car, and I've been worried it's possibly the bearings on the pass side driveshaft carrier, or worse yet the bevel gear.

I'd love it if someone could provide details of what it sounds like when either one of these items fails. I guess I would say mine is whining and moaning.

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1998 V70 AWD Turbo 190k+

I just wanted to make sure my question was clear.

I understand there are two bearings on the pass side driveshaft, one called the 'carrier' bearing that holds the straight shaft steady, and a separate bearing pack on the same side of the carrier bearing as the wheel which seems to be there to provide support for the CVs.

I'm worried these might be failing on my car, but I'm still trying to determine if it's one of these two bearing locations making all this noise, or if it's the bevel gear moaning and whining at me.

The noise has become considerably louder in the last few days, and it's actual got a lot of volume now.

I would love to hear from anyone who's had experience with either the bearings on the driveshaft failing or the infamous bevel gear failure (for which despite its infamy, I have been unable to track down any specifics of what symptoms indicate failure).

I would also love to hear from anyone with ideas about what either of these might sound/feel like, and esp how one could tell the difference. They're in close proximity and without experience of what this might sound like I'm finding it very difficult to determine if one or the other is causing all the noise.

Any advice, recommendations, and ideas are welcomed - I'm pretty much at the end of my rope.

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1998 V70 AWD Turbo 190k+

I attempted to replace the driver's side wheel hub last night but met with very little success. I couldn't get the rotor off and I broke BOTH ends off the ball joint clamp bolt. Time to take the old thing to a local indie to get this stuff apart where they have the safety blanket of the hoist and parts delivery.

I'm going to start another thread asking for advice on how to get the rotor off.
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1998 V70 AWD Turbo 190k+

I wanted to mention also that I put the car up on four stands last night and (carefully) put the transmission in gear and let the wheels run a bit.

My whining/howling noise was not present whatsoever, so I guess this noise is only present under load? Which should point to a bearing? (as opposed to some 'driveline' component like the transmission itself or bevel gear)?
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1998 V70 AWD Turbo 190k+

I finally got the other wheel bearing changed and to MY HORROR the noise was still present.

Not only that, but as time has rolled on the noise had progressed and it no longer sounded/felt like a bearing to me at all, but the bevel gear. It was making all kinds of noises now - humming, buzzing, vibrating, sometimes more than one noise at once with different oscillating frequencies and pitches.

I had never personally experienced a gearbox noise before, so I guess maybe that's why it took me a while to figure out what it was.

Last night I removed the propeller shaft from the gearbox to the VC and my noise disappeared. What a relief. I now feel like if I had continued driving the car the bevel gear would have eventually blown up.

Now the question is this: where is the problem that was causing all the stress on the bevel gear? ie: is the bevel gear itself the problem, or is the VC seized up inside and putting too much strain on the BG?

Right now I'm leaning more towards the VC, since the BG no longer makes any noise...

Anyway, I'll sort that out later. For now, anyway, I'm done spending money and time on this and I have a FWD!

As far as that goes, the car feels 'lighter' somehow. Not quite as 'stable' in the turns, but still a very capable car. I think this is probably how the FWD version of this car feels, except I've got a bit more ground clearance and maybe therefore a bit more body roll.

I'll probably start a new thread to ask about this in the proper context.


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1998 V70 AWD Turbo 190k+

Welcome to FWD! A lot of people have disconnected the propeller shaft because of a failed bevel gear. I doubt the VC had anything to do with your problem.

The main gear of the bevel gear is press fitted onto the shaft. The splines on the shaft are a very weak material and cannot handle a lot of torque. This usually occurs on the R models sooner than the XC. Removal of the propeller shaft eliminates any torque on the bevel gear.

Some have gone so far as to spot weld the bevel gear on to the shaft to keep it in place. It is THE weak spot on the AWD system, and continues in the new models. Replacing the drive oil helps because it keeps the oil temperature down, but that won't help you.

Now that you are FWD, your steering will feel lighter and there will be more torque steer. You will also get better gas mileage and you don't have to worry about replacing all 4 tires at the same time.

Klaus
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Common sense trumps a PhD

Very interesting information Klaus.

It sounds like from your estimation my BG if f***ed beyond recourse now. I kind of wish I didn't need it at all anymore and I could tear it apart and see what the hell is going on in there.

I was recently reading a thread on xc70.com where someone had recently (this spring) done a conversion and completely removed their bevel gear and installed the regular FWD pass side drive shaft. In his case he HAD to because the BG had blown a big hole in the side.
Here's the thread:
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13260&highlight=bevel+gear&page=3

If I can get a hold of this guy and find out his secret I will post details of the conversion on this forum.

Any sense taking the BG to a driveline or transmission place to have them try to rebuild the thing?
I don't know if they could source the gear and/or seals and/or bearings to refurbish the thing or not. Also I don't know if it would be cheaper to do this than what they want for one from Erie Volvo ($800+shipping)(at least they give a lifetime warranty). If I thought the parts prices from Volvo would be reasonable I would think about rebuilding it myself, but you know where I'm going with this...
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1998 V70 AWD Turbo 190k+

A couple of years ago, someone in England took his bevel gear case apart and found the gear loose inside. Being a ships mechanic, he glued the gear back into place and spot welded the gear onto the the shaft. Who knows how long that lasted.

I would not suggest removing the BG box and putting in a new axle. Spending $800-900 for a used BG sounds better in the long run. Because you already have the prop shaft off, replacement shouldn't be a difficult task.

Dealers never repair cars, they just R&R parts and charge a lot.

Klaus
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Common sense trumps a PhD

Interesting advice as always Klaus.

FTR, removing the prop shaft was not a big deal either really. The bolts were glued with a thread locker, but they were all in good condition and came out rather easily. I was at first worried about getting it out around the exhaust but it turned out to not be a problem at all.

I even went to the trouble of cleaning up a few surface rust spots and jimmied up some stuff to hold the heat shields in a little better while I was under there.

I'm amazed at what good shape the metal is underneath this thing. The old guy is ~12 years old (MY1998, most of it was manufactured in 1997, I don't know the assembly date offhand) and been through some tough winters in Atlantic Canada after coming from the NE US. For all the many faults we've come to learn about with these cars, there's some serious materials and build quality where it counts.

When I start thinking about patching the AWD back together I will probably pull the BG apart and see what's going on in there. Great to know some folks have found a way around the design flaws. Too bad there's no noise about how to obtain a 'better' part to replace the weak one.
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1998 V70 AWD Turbo 190k+

It is all galvanized, very good work. I was surprised with the heat shield nuts being plastic. I put 1 1/2 inch washers on the studs, banged them flat to the body, then put the nuts back on. Held very nicely.

Erie Vovo does know how to ship parts to CDN. The used BG will be bone dry, you have to add oil.

Every 2 years, Volvo added better splines to the bevel gear, and they are still doing it. I am afraid you can not use the updated BG in later models, something about the gears and box being different.

There is a really good write up over on www.v70r.com and http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13260

Klaus
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Common sense trumps a PhD

Hello, 1998 w/>190K miles. Why not live without AWD for a while? Explore the option of obtaining and replacing BGs and VCs yourself. Did you keep mileage records? FWD vs. bad AWD might yield substantial savings. You can save up for 4 matching tires in the event you do restore your system. There has to be a bunch of things which need attention on your car. Are these things rebuildable? Good Luck, Kira

Thanks for the response Kira

I fully FULLY intend to live without AWD for a while. I don't know how long that while will be - if it means replacing the bevel gear it will be a year or more.

I did talk to the Erie Volvo guys and got a quote for both a used bevel gear ~$800 and a used VC ~$350, plus shipping would be a couple of hundred. This is certainly not in cards for me right now, esp after the month I've had chasing other stuff in this car.

I did indeed keep mileage records and they're pretty accurate actually. I'll try to post back on this after a couple of weeks with the new setup.

There are, as you say, a bunch of things that need attention in the meantime. Namely:

- driver's side headlammp assembly -> corroded reflectors so I need to replace the whole thing

- Timing belt - I already bought 'the works' so I could piggyback shipping costs with other stuff I've ordered from FCP to deal with the wheel bearing and brake problems I've had. So I've got it already I just need to get everything straight and do it.

- fog lights - my car doesn't have oem foglights but I've been slowly acquiring everything needed for this addition. I've got the relay and the switch, and now just need to buy some lights and hook it up. Currently trying to pick out some lights. I think I'm actually going to put two sets of lights on eventually - 1 set of driving lights and 1 set of fog lights, operated independently. This is technically illegal where I live and probably most other places too, but many people seem to be doing it so I'm not worried. I'll probably post to here and chronicle my adventures in lighting when I go through all this.

- rattles and squeaks - still chasing lots of these.

- front suspension - related to the last one - I think I've got a lot of noise from the fabled spring seat problem. I'll look into doing this later too, as I will need to buy a spring tool first and I've kind of blown my tool budget the last few months.

- floor mats - car didn't have any Volvo floor mats when I bought it just (very) poorly fitting walmart jobbies that are terrible. I'll be getting some that fit properly. I'm open to suggestions for sure.

I bet I could fill out this wish list all day.

Still love the car though. And I'm still open to the possibility of redoing the AWD if I get the chance someday. I loved how it felt and the security in the snow was pretty unbelievable.


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1998 V70 AWD Turbo 190k+

"it may have been caused by the way the tow truck operator pulled the car up onto the tow truck deck"

Not likely, unless something was already 95% broken. Wrapping the chain around the control arm and driveshaft is rather unimpressive, but I've seen worse. You would be surprised--trust me on this--at how resistant cars are to being dragged here and there for towing purposes. Things that get broken are already broken, IMO (but perhaps they don't know it yet)

There are numerous potential causes for this noise. Tire noise, bearing noise, differential noise, transmission noise. CV shaft? Probably not. Driveshafts rarely make noise outside of a snapping noise, before they break, but you never know.

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Chris Herbst
Scottsdale, AZ

1992 940 153k
2005 S80 31k

Thank you for the reply.

I am glad to hear you say it's likely not a driveshaft, as I had pretty much written that idea off too. It seems unlikely that they would make a near-constant noise, and more likely they would produce noises when the joints were stressed in turns, etc.

Also I'm glad to hear that the tow-truck operator's actions were likely not the cause.

Incidentally, what is the best way for this car to be pulled up on to a deck like that? Is there a tow point at the front of the vehicle? I'm pretty sure there is one at the rear on the 'reinforced section' of the spare wheel compartment...

I read in the user's manual that the car needs to be towed either with all four wheels on the ground spinning or on a deck, so I was glad they sent a deck truck for me! (As a side note the truck they sent was a 2008 model and it had over 350k kms on it already! Those guys really run their trucks hard!)


I guess since I wasn't having any problems before, I will just change the tie-rod ends and get it lined up - maybe the tires are making noise because it's out of line from the tie-rods being worn out. And I know the TREs are worn, so maybe they just got that little extra bit of stress to put them over the edge during the tow incident.

???