I will be periodically reposting this

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Well, I have found a possible avenue for a class action suit against Volvo regarding the evaporator core. Milberg Weiss Bershad Hynes & Lerach LLP is a law firm specializing in class action suits against large companies. I have posted a complaint with them on the Internet(http://www.milberg.com/frames_fraud.html), citing the following fraudulent conduct:

"Selling automobiles with defective evaporator cores. More specifically, having sold to me personally, a brand new 1996 Volvo 850 station wagon, for which I had to replace the evaporator core at a cost of ~ $1000 after only 60K-70K miles of driving. Volvo dealer, who did the repair, cited this to be a "common" problem. I did contact Volvo Cars of NA directly (copies of correspondence are available), to try to get partial reimbursement of repair costs. Volvo responded by denying any responsibility for the defective evaporator. Have personally found out about many similar complaints on an Internet forum (www.brickboard.com)."

If anyone has had a similar problem, and would like to start a class action suit against Volvo, please go to the above mentioned website.

Bernie and everyone else out there who's lost "their cool" thanks to Volvo!

I think I've read through all the related postings and would like to add my story. A few days before Christmas, with smirks of glee written all over their faces, my service go-between (you know - that useless person) and the service tech gave me the bad news. Evaporator coil gone bad. Hohoho, give us $1,000+ and we will fix what never should have broken at 45,000 miles.
I hate to say I should have known better. I bought this '97 960 used, when it was 2 1/2 years old. The previous owner was up front about the A/C problems he had starting around 20,000 miles. He bought it at 1 year, 16,000 miles. Even though I have his service receipts, they do me little good. Since the work (he brought it in for A/C issues 3 times!!) was done under warranty, there's no good parts and labor documentation. Only fixed so and so under warranty. Yeah, right.
I live in Florida so A/C is more a necessity than a luxury. But my husband & I have owned quite a few used cars in the 23 years we've lived in FL, and not one had A/C problems. We're talking cars with 100,000 miles.
I will write many letters as suggested by one reader, and I will never buy another Volvo. Had I been more heads up I should have complained while it was still under warranty. The A/C system has always been marginal at best. But then again, had I purchased a Japanese or American car, it would have come with a longer warranty, and probably a better air conditioner.

Owning a car is tough. Sometimes, you actually will have to spend money on it. The sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be.

Good luck.

> I will be periodically reposting this

Please do not post it again. The technical forums cannot handle repeated postings.

-JSBB

Bernie wrote:

> "Selling automobiles with defective evaporator cores.

PLEASE!! Answer me this. Was the evaporator core "defective" the day you purchased/took ownership of the vehicle? Did your A/C work properly ON day 1?

If so, your case has no merit. The cores were NOT defective.

It is my opinion that Volvo sold a car with an evaporator core involving a "design flaw". I'm not a mechanical engineer, but my guess is that it can be proven in a court of law that the design of the evaporator is weak, at best. Anyhow, I'm NOT looking for replies on whether you agree on this point or not. All I'm saying is that if you agree based on YOUR personal experience, you may have a recourse not to get stuck with the (very) expensive repair bill.

P.S.: Let me guess, your evaporator has not yet failed.

"It is my opinion that Volvo sold a car with an evaporator core involving a "design flaw". I'm not a mechanical engineer, but my guess is that it can be proven in a court of law that the design of the evaporator is weak"

Look, by your own words it's obvious that you lack enough factual data to even begin to pull this off. This is a VERY OLD subject here and there's been many before you with ALOT more technical info concerning real facts about AC YET no lawsuit has been, nor ever will be fought. The 850 is now an older car and not a concern with Volvo anymore. At least you had a nice long warranty, more than the 1 yr warranty you'ld have with the same car if you were in Europe. Years ago, many people traded off cars with 60-70K miles, and some still do. There's no guaranties that anything on cars or anything else lasts forever, can't happen in the real world.

Volvos and AC never did go well together, even on the older RWDs so if you can't deal with your Volvos AC problems, either do without or buy another car. If it were my car, I'd just get the freon topped up every year or two as most evaps don't leak faster than that.

On a lighter note for newer Volvo car owners reading this, so far the newer cars are doing better but then they're still fairly new too. Only time will tell.

Hey budddddy

Other vehicle makes have failuers of the evaporator core, this is not a Volvo specific problem. I also do not believe Volvo even manufacturers evaporator cores, these are parts which Volvo (like other makes) outsource to other companies. Volvo and other manufacturers did solve the problem by installing air filters on the ventilation intake system (keeps small debris etc. from entering) and by having an automatic timed blower setup which removes moisture (moisture leads to icing, which helps kill evaps) and keeps mildew from forming in the vent system itself -smelly mildew. This is not a design flaw, as strange as it may seem, it was a general issue with evaps and constraints in packaging the systems in the cars. BMW had similar issues to Volvo. I know some 850s that have their orig. evaps after over 100,000...it's not a problem with all of them. The failure is a matter of ice forming, a combination of corrosion, and debris. After 70K, I don't see why Volvo would be responsible. Maybe after 10K or 20K....but 70K seems to indicate the lifespan of this evap...maybe unfortunate, but not a design flaw.

I have not followed any of the evaporator postings and so far my unit works OK. I don't know what are the problems but here is my $0.02.

The fact that Volvo outsources parts to other suppliers does not make it any less responsible for any defects. Neither poor quality of BMW evaporators (or other makes) gives Volvo any excuse nor the fact that in Europe they fleece customers with one year warranty.

All evaporators are designed to work with condensation and moisture since that is how they remove excess humidity from the outside air. Dust is a fact of life for automotive air supply units and should not be used as an excuse. Water freezing on the evaporators should not create any problems or reduce its life, if you want to test the assumption check your fridge as evaporators there get covered with ice all the time. Icy evaporators may impact compressors and condensers and reduce air flow and cause poor air conditioning unit performance. It is a tough job but they should be able to handle it without problems.

But there are togher jobs out there.

In industrial environment I have cooling colis (evaporators) working 8000 hours per year, covered with acidic condensation all the time, and being blasted once a year with 10,000 psi water blaster. They are copper fins with copper tubes with tin coating. After 11 years in service they are still in good condition and have not yet failed.

Yes, but is the equipment you mention using the possibly more corrosive R-134A? My last car's evap went bad at 45K miles. It was a '96 VW golf -also expensive to replace. I don't think the problem's limited to Volvo. Could it be that it's R-134A to blame and in the mid nineties, there weren't many evaporators that could handle the new type of freon? Has anyone researched evap failure in the newer Volvo models?

-Smitty

'95 855T

Based on my experience R-134a is not more corrosive than the one (R22, or R12) it replaced. There is lots of equipment with R134a that is not failing just because the industry switched from one refrigerant to the other. But even if it were the case it is still no excuse to have short life evaporators installed. Volvo and other car manufacturers should use parts that will stand up to the environment. I don't think that any of us forced them to switch refrigerants. They did it on their own under government pressure to get into more environmentally friendly refrigerants (ozone hole) and if the new components weren't tested enough then they should fix them. Several years ago there was leaded gas available. One of the purposes for the lead was to lubricate valves, etc. When unleaded fuel got introduced valves and other components got redesigned to cope with the lack of lubrication provided by lead. I guess engines didn't suddenly started to seize and we didn't need to get the usual excuse.

Smitty:

Interesting theory. But why would the "newer" replacement cores still fail ?

Probably because the replacement units are no different from the original units .

From Volvo's perspective, they have lived up to their end of the bargain. They have provided you with a functional A/C system through the life of the warranty. And where those units have failed during warranty, they've replaced those units at their expense. I realise that you are not satisfied with that, but I am just speaking from their perspective.

Now, since they feel they have satisfied their obligation, they don't see a need to fix something that, in their thinking, isn't broken.

To correct a problem with something as complex as a A/C evaporator, would take hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not a million or more. As far as they are concerned, why spend money on retooling for an obsolete car, especially if the owner is going to be paying for it anyway. I assume that the warranty for the replacement part is relatively short, so no skin off of their backs. In fact, it is a profit center for them.

In my opinion, bottom line, if you feel Volvo has not lived up to it's end of the bargain, your next purchase should be other than a Volvo--and that is the best, and most direct, message you can send to Volvo. Yeah, you can sue them, but speaking from experience, the lawyers will get rich, and you will lose a few years from your life. The reason you have gotten minimal response from the lawyers is that they are evaluating your case on a very detached basis. You may think you are on the white horse. But lawyers rarely care about white-horse causes. They are looking for a payout. And as much money as you think Volvo has, the lawyers see a lawsuit suit with distinctly defined damages--something that can't be stretched into hunreds of millions of dollars.

I can tell you, in my case, my next purchase will not be a Volvo. Not because of this A/C problem, but because of general quality control issues and reliability concerns. As I have mentioned in other postings, I've owned Japanese cars--Hondas/Acuras--very, very very reliable cars. So, I've been to the mountain-top and looked into the promised land. And the promised land doesn't have Swedish cars in it.

My next car is a BMX Mini Cooper S.

And this is precisely what I intend to do. After 16 years of having a Volvo in my driveway, I'll never own another. My evap failure rate has been ridiculous, I'm on my fourth one in 6 years and 90,000 miles.

JohnH:

I hope that folks like Dr. Evil and DavE understand that your experience is not just a fluke. Again, I think that they themselves will have to experience your level of frustration to agree that this is a major problem which is not at all being handled well by Volvo. BTW, I will strongly consider selling my '96 850 wagon with 110k miles on it, BEFORE my second evaporator fails. The replacement will not be a Volvo, though. They can cater to their "new" clientelle, for all I care ....

Hey Bernie,

Just wanted to say that my writings on this subject were not intended to harm you. I just thought that your approach was, in the end, going to be counterproductive to you goal.

As I have said, I think that the best thing that you, or anyone else with this problem, can do is to write Volvo and let them know that you will not be purchasing another Volvo, specifically because of this problem.

I will be doing something similar, but I will not be focusing on the A/C issue, 'cause it has yet to rear its ugly head with my car. But there are many quality and reliability issues I have had with this car and I will make it well known to them that these are the reasons I will not buy another Volvo.

If they were to get several hundred of these kind of letters from customers, copied to their Ford bosses, it is remotely possible that someone might wake up and ask further about these issues.

From a sales standpoint, repeat business is VERY, VERY important. Letting Volvo know that they are screwing up in that area might have an impact, although I doubt Vovlo will do anything.

Good luck Bernie.

Problem with Volvo is a 4 letter word:

FORD. Quality has never been Job 1, and they're at the helm. My 850GLT is my 1st and last Volvo. Frankly, it's a piece of crap. 80K. Leaks oil like a sieve, just spent $1000. on master cylinder, rotors, etc. AC sucks. Plastic trim on tailgate falling apart. $37,000 car? I think not.

It's probably fair to point out that Ford were nowhere near the helm around the time of the 850 which was in design a decade before Ford took any interest. Even the S60 would have minimal direct Ford input.

Ken, I think you summed up Volvo's and lawyers attitude really well. The only thing I may add is that there is nothing complex or difficult in a A/C evaporator. There are just several soldered tubes with plate fins to get good heat transfer. Every fridge has one and you can get a whole fridge for $600. The only part of the A/C system that works really hard is the compressor with condenser coil being a distant second.

That's the question alright. I Think I'll research other suppliers of the cores as I may be due for one myself. Again I can say from experience that it isn't just Volvo with the problem.

Let's see:

My evaporator failed at approx. 60K miles. At an average (mostly highway) speed of 45 mph, that's approx. 1,300 hours of driving. Of those 1300 hours, I would say my AC was used less than half of that time, i.e. 667 hours. Now, let's say I was way off with my original estimates, and the evaporator had as many as 1,000 hours on it before it failed. That's still a very short life span, no matter what anyone tries to tell me ....

Bernie,

I just had my evaporator replaced ($1000) Sept 01. Also had the tailgate trim falloff problem fixed at the same time ($100).

I was involved in a Federal Trade commission lawsuit against VW in the early 80's concerning excessive oil consumption due to valve stem seals that did not hold up to engine temperature. After about 5 year I received a check for full repair compensation. Note that this was the FTC and NOT some lawyer's group filing a class action suit. Most such suits result in little compensation for the victims and lots of money for the lawyers.

As far as Volvo's design "surviving" the 4yr 5ok mile warranty letting allowing to complaim no further liability, in the case of VW above the warranty period was only 1yr/12K miles, but the suit covered owner wtih much more mileage - it is called a latent defect.

Jim

Jim:

Good point. Maybe the FTC approach has more merit than a class action suit, although I have personally seen class action suits work (I'm sure the lawyers got stinking rich, but I also got a $1080 check in the mail with very little effort on my part). My pain-level on the evaporator issue is not nearly as high as that of others that have posted, so I am hoping that they will take the lead. Again, repeated identical postings on this subject (such as those required to drum up popular support) are NOT allowed by Jarrod (forum moderator), so I recommend another avenue. Writing letters to Mr. Olsson at VCNA and his cohorts at FORD, as suggested by K. Temkin, has already been done, as far as I can tell from people posting here (BTW, I think someone has replaced Olsson since I've complained directly to him back in May of this year).

Bernie: The few times that I have had to (or FELT that I had to...) contact someone in a situation like this, I try to find as many 'heads' to go after, as opposed to emulating that great line/book title, 'mau-mauing the flak-catchers.' (And please be VERY clear on this: I am NOT using that phrase as a racial/ethnic denigration, but rather as a descriptor which means: you're going after the straw man instead of going after the guy he works for.) In this case, I would be sending a letter to customer relations departments of both car companies (or divisions, whatever), AND the company executives/officers, the FTC, the attorney general of the state that you live in, to the editors of every car-related magazine that you can think of, AAA, newspapers, consumer complaint...well, I am SURE that you get the idea. My letters use a particular person's name, and/or title in the salutation/header, and a clearly-stated message, with intended action (like, "I'm not buying more of your cars because..."). After the signature, I list a "CC" and then list EVERYONE else's name and title to whom the other copies are being sent. Kind of a "Whoa, this person is serious" etc. When a lot of those letters, calm and rational, go out to that many people, companies, agencies, etc., it's the "flak-catchers" who usually hear about it (trhe PR people), but you can bet the folks in The Boardroom will be aware of what is happening as well. IF nothing happens, it isn't because you didn't try! --PD