|
Some of you may have seen my other posts here and here regarding the front cam oil seal replacement I encountered while changing my timing belt.
I had read about Volvo's "special tool" needed to install the new seal. Of course, the objective is to press the seal in evenly. I figured I could use something else. I took one of my new seals for sizing and borrowed a 36mm socket from Autozone. Problem was that the socket was too long and would not fit. ALSO, whatever you use can not be any smaller than the seal on the inner diameter because then it would not go over the cam shaft of course (the 36mm was not wide enough to clear the cam shaft either).
After keeping an eye open, I found some piping in the exhaust pipe section of Autozone. I suppose any piping would do. What I purchased was 2" in diameter. That seemed to center on the new seal. I brought that home, and cut it (using a hacksaw by hand) to a size I approximated. IMPORTANT - I used tape around the edge where it would come into contact with the seal so as to prevent the pipe from cutting right into that new seal. I used cloth tape on the connecting end, but duct tape will work just as well.
My plan was to use the pipe to push the seal in evenly.
Well, arm strength would not really get it done.
I devised a way to use a pry bar, and a small 1/2" thick board to disperse the pressure evenly around the pipe.... that worked to get it started, but when it came down to it, wherever the pressure point of the prybar hit is where the pipe was pushed - and hence the seal. No matter what I did, I could not get a pressure point resulting in even pressure. I tried and tried to get the pry bar contact pressure point to fall in the middle of the board up against the middle of the pipe, but to no avail.
I was thinking, man, if only I had some kind of press.
Then it occurred to me; Use some of the scrap pipe, cut it down to a small size (almost as you would use a wheel spacer), then use the cam sprocket and the 3 mounting bolts to press in against the pipe, against the seal, into the seat.
Voila'
A couple of important notes should you go this route;
- 1. Before removing the sprocket, mark the cam shaft to sprocket
relationship for repositioning installation. I over did it by marking and numbering the bolts, but the important part is marking the cam to sprocket relationship (see figure 1. For me, the red paint pre-existed from the last time someone was in there (however, in the end I found too much space even between that marking - in the future I will be using a fine tipped brush to get an exact contact point marking). I used a Sharpie to mark the bolts, but in retrospect, that was not sufficient enough should I do this again - particularly where the sprocket is concerned (more on this in #3).)
- 2. Make SURE you have sufficiently cushioned the edge of the pipe that will be making contact with the new seal, using duct tape or some other like methond.
- 3. Know that by using the sprocket as a press, wherever the bolts are lined up for the pressing process will likely score or mark the sprocket. I failed to realize this and because I went overboard on markings, I was OK, but what I learned is that when it came time to do the final installation, the "pressing" process created new circles where the bolt heads came in contact with the sprocket, while also serving to "erase" or "smudge" away many of my Sharpie markings.
- 4. The sequence I went by was
a) Thouroughly clean the surface of the seat, and the camshaft. Use some kind of solvent and a lint free rag. I had my shop vac there, and I had other things going on, so I used that as well, but you want to keep as much lint and impurities from going inside that cam opening as possible.
b) Put a very small amount of oil around the cam shaft itself and or around the INSIDE ring of the new seal - DO NOT GET ANY OIL ON THE OUTSIDE RING OF THE NEW SEAL OR IN THE SEAT TO WHICH THAT WILL COME INTO CONTACT or you will jeopardize the sealing sufficiency.
c)Gently install the new seal onto the cam shaft as best as you can. You should be able to get it all the way up to the seat and maybe in a little bit using hand strength.
d FOR ME - Here is where I used a pry bar and the longer of the two pipes to get the seal started into the seat... I don't know if you can skip this step or not.
e) I actually put the small "spacer" pipe onto the inner sprocket itself. There was enough of a lip there to hold it in place. I then put the sprocket with spacer attached onto the cam shaft and screwed in the three bolts until they just connected. IMPORTANT - Make sure that the pipe is contacting the seal in a centered fashion all the way around. If you can not see underneath, trust that center on the sides and top will equal center on the bottom as well, but also feel with your finger if you can.
f) IMPORTANT - Tighten the three bolts EVENLY. First by finger, then with a socket. As for me, I went 1/4 turn each in a clockwise manner. You will likely make several rounds, so a little patience here is well advised - NOTE - Keep checking the pipe to seal contact points and make sure the "press" is centered.
- 4. For me, I kept an eye on the seal itself, and continued in that clockwise fashion until the seal was in to my satisfaction. Honestly, I did think I was finished at one point, and after pulling the sprocket off to remove the spacer, found that I was feeling too much of a "lip" from the seat to seal, and had to go back and continue the process. The seal when seated should at least be flush to the seat.
Unfortunately I do not know how to post multiple pics within a single message, so I will have to post pics in replies. To see the full sized images click;
Figure 1 Sprocket marked before removal
Figure 2 TIGHT SHOT Sprocket markings
Figure 3 Reference Picture of Existing "spring" inside the seal
Figure 4 Picture of Pipes (Small one is the one for "pressing")
Figure 5 Reference Picture of Small Pipe as a "Spacer"
Figure 6 Picture of Seal (using mirror) after all was finished
--
1995 850T Wagon 120k
|
|
posted by
someone claiming to be jASAAB
on
Thu May 12 04:22 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
I have repalced seals in the past what works best is a appropiate diameter PVC pipe!!
|
|
|
If I might suggest . . .
. . . a variant of your pressing tool might have been used as a removal tool.
Because these exhuast pipe are available in nested sizes, the next size, or two, down would likely slip over the camshaft journal, under the seal's lip. If you were to splay-out the edge of that pipe externally, it would form a lip which could catch on the underside of the seal, if you had enough "slop" in the pipe to shift back and forth on the cam journal. With a little slide-hammer action, you could remove the seal. If there was not enough slop, you could slice the pipe in half, or less, and that would give you the "slop" that you need.
Just an idea for the next guy.
|
|
|
Maybe a good idea, but in this particular instance, a removal tool that you describe would not have worked due to the fact that the seal appeared to be glued in. Did you take a look at his other posts concerning the removal process? I was amazed that he was able to endure. I would have had a wrenched up, "tied up into knots" feeling in the pit of my stomach if I would have encountered what he did in trying to remove that cam seal, and thus would not have had the energy to go forward with it...That eerie feeling that goes along with lack of any confidence at all, and utter hopelessness would have had me towing my car to the dealer, and thanking them for helping me out of my dilemma, no matter how long it took them or how much it cost me. I hate that and always regret doing it later, especially knowing that they at the dealer are laughing at me on my account (all the way to the bank too) for trying to be a DIYers. To read a write up like this one give one the needed confidence to withstand the temptation of giving in to the dealer. Anyway, sorry for the essay....I think you get my drift and how much I truly appreciate the pioneering spirit and accomplishments of a fellow Bricker!
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon
|
|
|
Wow, thank you for your kind words.
You are right about it not working as a removal tool in my instance.
I thank the poster for his thoughts and contribution, but in this case I don't think it would be the way to go.I would not have known (and did not initially) that my seal was glued in place, so when I first encountered what I did, I did not realize that it was not the norm.
Furthermore, the most sensitive surface to consider is the cam shaft itself. This has to rotate at a high speed within the seal which stays stationary. If you score the seat, some kind of filler like gasket maker can be used to make up the difference because the contact point is fixed. BUT if you score a groove on the cam shaft itself, there would be no way to "fill that gap". Fortunately I was mindful of this as I scraped away.
Finally, as mentioned, the piping just fit onto the inner side of the sprocket, with enough contact that the sprocket held it in place there. The sprocket has a raised inner surface where it connects to the cam shaft. If I am not mistaken, this raised area is just larger than the cam shaft. Any smaller diameter would certainly not fit around that inner part, and may be the difference in clearance as to whether or not you could begin the bolts threading.
Bottom line is I would not risk a smaller diameter piping coming into contact in any way with the cam shaft journal.
Yeah, you described the feeling I got... I called my best friend and told him, "I think I finally got into my engine to a point where I will not be able to recover". Frankly, I really did not have the money to do the tow-to-the dealer thing.
Besides, I have observed some mechanics, and to many of them, this is just a job and they are on a schedule... so, if more damage is incurred, they can just pass that along (of course not all are like this, but many are). Point is that if I got it to a dealer, they too would have to fight through the process, but perhaps with less care. I was thinking (worse case scenario) that I would have to pull the top off, which would have been really involved.
So given all considerations and the point I was at, I figured I really had nothing to loose. With that, I just took to it with gentle (paranoia oriented) care and a lot of patience. I started with what I could see and get to easiest, frequently referencing the shape of the new seal to anticipate what I was working with inside. If you had read Klaus' comment on how it appeared in the pick that much of the metal was gone... that is a little deceptive in the imaging, but the fact is that area is where I started and really did not know quite yet what I was poking into, so it got a little more scored. Once I got a bit of a peak inside, I was able to work with a little more know-how, which is another reason I took the pics. For me, once I see something - pictures or in person - it is much easier for me to understand, and that is a great value I find in picture posts online. I knew what I needed as far tools go, but I had to look around a bit to find them. As a note, the Sears Craftsman pick set did not bend at the tips the way the other did.
In the end, I had to take a lot of patience. I have a big magnifying glass I picked up at the .99 store, and that has come in real handy when working on my car. Fortunately they made this Magnifier with a light that beams down where you point the center. This is what helped me to see what I was doing under the hood, then the photos when put on the computer in full size gave me a still image in detail to examine. All this combined is what led me to see what grooves existed that needed to be cleaned and scraped with the pick.
In the end, the greatest hurdles overcome give the greatest satisfaction.
I have gotten myself in those big panic situations before, and each time when I prevail, the sense of accomplishment is greater. I really thought I had gone to far this time, but in the end I got it all back together and running...
Now I need to keep an eye on it and see if that new seal holds. If it does not, I will have to go back in and use adhesive, but at least I will be armed with experience and knowledge this time.
In the end, I want to publicly acknowledge Klaus and Mark (Rule 308) for their responses, advice and guidance. Their experience and input gave me the confidence and or affirmation to press on. Thanx guys!
Cheers
--
1995 850T Wagon 120k
|
|
|
FIGURE 1
--
1995 850T Wagon 120k
|
|
|
Nicely done! I just posted a message about a similar leak. Could you detail where the oil tended to accumulate from the exhaust cam seal leak? I see oil that collects at the bottom of the timing belt cover as well as along the back/firewall side of the head all the way to the driver's side of the head. It is more of a stain and small amount of oil that you can see on your fingertip when you wipe it along the edge of the head. At some point oil is leaking enough as to create a smell and small amount of smoke when coming to a stop after a long highway drive.
|
|
|
LOL, my engine is starting to leak oil in new places all the time it seems.
Whereas this was concerned, I was doing my T-Belt change, and read several posts and pages related to that. Being this was my first time doing the T-Belt, I was a little intimidated - particularly when you consider how costly it could be if not done right.
Many posters suggest changing out the other working (moving) components while you are in there (Tensioner, Tensioner Pulley, Idler Pulley, Water Pump) - especially on vehicles that are getting a bit above the 100k mark. Other posters suggest not changing those items if they do not need it. I got this car used, and have put 30k on it. Unfortunately it did not have detailed records. The point is that failure of any of the previously mentioned components could lead to a prompt timing belt failure and hence crashed valves / pistons resulting in a $3,000 engine rebuild. For me, the extra money for the moving parts was cheap insurance and moreso peace of mind.
I do remember from my reading some guy who suggested replacing the cam seals while you are in there. This was a component that I decided I would not touch unless it appeared as though it needed attention.
When I got inside, I could see what I would describe more like residue. The exhaust (rear position) cam side had it, where the intake did not (this told me there was a difference - something that should not be). I would say that it must have been a very gradual occurrence over a long period of time. There was no obvious leak at the seal itself, but the trail of residue indicated to me that the seal had been comprimised. (In retrospect, it is possible that the last dingbat who worked on this thing never cleaned the residue - and that the seal may have been just fine - and that I was reacting to a problem that had previously been addressed already - !@#$%&*()
Anyway, this "residue" - although very light in volume became somewhat of a dust magnet. A flytrap for small debris like little grits of sand. As I moved the Tensioner Pulley, you could feel - just ever so slightly - a bit of grit.
That is one major problem with a leaking seal. Even if the leak is ever so slight, it can have a dominoe effect on the other components funcionality which could lead to the same catastrophic result - in this case by a "gritty" process. Obviously, a more productive leak could comprimise the integrity of the belt by a "saturation" process. Besides, the exhaust cam is just above the Water Pump. Having just installed a new pump, I did not want a very small and gradual leak of gritty nature to grow into a bigger leak of saturating nature - thus bathing and soaking my new water pump, belt, tensioner ($125) and pulleys. Oh yeah, the Tensioner (most expensive component replaced) has a top end that points up toward the direction of the cams, so a big leak could conceivably go right into the Tensioner top and pool there... or if only residue - accumulate grit.
The bottom line is that I replaced these components to have the peace of mind that I would have another 70k to drive before having to think about or deal with them again, and I did not want a leaking seal to change all that, so I addressed it. I had planned on doing both sides if I was going to do one, but I tackled the leaking side first, and because of the problems I encountered there, decided to leave the other one alone!
I checked my pics, and unfortunately I do not have anything that shows that residue. Of course, by now I have cleaned it all up. I did keep my old parts, so I will go and see if the Tensioner Pulley is still reflective of the way I found it, and if so, will post a pic so you can see what I encountered.
Good luck to you
--
1995 850T Wagon 120k
|
|
|
FIGURE 2
--
1995 850T Wagon 120k
|
|
|
FIGURE 3
--
1995 850T Wagon 120k
|
|
|
FIGURE 4
--
1995 850T Wagon 120k
|
|
|
FIGURE 5
--
1995 850T Wagon 120k
|
|
|
FIGURE 6
--
1995 850T Wagon 120k
|
|
|
|
|