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Hello All:
1967 Volvo 122S Wagon. You have heard it before but I mean it this time: I am fishing the miscreant who has been clogging my fuel intake out of the tank. New fuel sender seal? Check. So what should I look out for? Here is the procedure I plan to perform in my mind's eye. Any insights would be helpful:
*Drain the gas tank into a safe, sealable container. Start by the old "suckin' hose" method from the gas cap port on the outside of the car. Finish the job using the drain plug at the bottom.
*Open the fuel sender port at the top of the gas tank. I assume this is accessed by removing the spare tire and the rubber mat underneath, correct? I have never seen one of these before so this should be interesting. What sort of fasteners are involved? Am I in any danger of ruining them such that I need to have replacements on hand?
*With all of the doors, windows and rear hatch open, position the battery-powered inflatable mattress pump we have (set to "blow" mode) at the fuel sender port to flow the fumes out of the tank at the open gas cap port.
*Start looking for the little bugger.
*Put the kit 'n caboodle back together with the new fuel sender seal. How much do I torque the fasteners?
I believe it is probably a bit of weld from when the tank was cut in half, completely refinished inside and out and welded back together. I assume there is some kind of baffling system inside but I have actually never looked in a fuel tank before. The fuel sender aperture is also probably pretty small, inhibiting flashlights and hands. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding technique or tools that might make this successful? Even blowing out the fumes I am a bit nervous about fishing around with anything metal for fear of initiating a spark.
Cheers,
Jeff Pucillo
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You're going to have to take the tank OUT to do this.
Otherwise you will not get the required motion to get the miscreant to where
you can see it.
DON'T use anything that has abrasive particles in it! (Like scouring powder,
no matter how fine.)
If you are in open air away from the car, and the tank has been drained dry,
I would think the explosion hazard no worse than at your local gas station,
and I would not put water in it because of the difficulty getting the same
water back out. Just getting the tank dry and shaking it around should make
the location of the miscreant fairly clear. Baffles will be (bafflingly) in
the way.
On the other hand if there is already water or powdery residue in the tank of
some color (white, gray, tan, red, etc) it might be worthwhile to wash it to
get it fairly clean but I would rinse until for SURE no longer soapy and then
rinse once with denatured alcohol after the water has apparently dried as much
as it will.
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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The 120 tank only has the one baffle at the inlet neck so that is not the big issue. If he keeps obstructing his inlet with the kaka, it is likely near the drain and about 8-inches from the sender port (annoyingly far with that little hole).
Water is no big huhu if you treat things properly.
NOOOO scouring powder! Just regular dish soap (liquid type). Using the water as a lube to sluice stuff around is a lot safer than using gas. You could use diesel as it has a much higher flash-point, but it's still a bit caustic on the 'ol hands.
I have the same filler neck issue but my cap seal is bad so I suspect some fuel may be running down the outside of the neck... although I have heard from many people about the joint between the neck and the tank. If mine remains an issue after replacing seals I'll go the KREEM route as I've done that on other tanks with great success.
Gas line anti-freeze will get all the incidental water and the surficant (soap) is no issue.
Last line of defense is to take it out and off to the radiator shop for a full 'tankin' and resolder.
Oh, you may want to blow back into the fuel line from the pump to dislodge any kaka in there, too.
On removing the tank... I ended up having to saw off the (METRIC, 14mm) tap on the side of the tank because the tube-nut (15mm) was so badly corroded to it. Cut mess off pipe with normal pipe cutter and used 8mm fuel line to connect it to a barb (oddly 1/4" IP) set in the tank.
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Mike!
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Your experience with 122 tanks differs from mine ('63 4-door, '67 2-door and
2 '66 wagons)
Mine all had a baffle around the fuel level sender, a box about 6" square going
almost to the bottom of the tank.
NONE of mine had metric fittings - all were inch-size pipe or tubing fittings.
The metal fuel line was 5/16" which is mighty close to 8mm.
Leakage at the short hose that connects the filler neck to the tank stub was
a problem if the hose dried out from the tank being too near empty for too
long. It would drip for a day or so after filling, until the gasoline caused
the rubber to swell.
Diesel is hard on the skin but is not caustic (alkaline). True caustics
include lye, caustic potash, washing soda (sodium carbonate) and other ionic
compounds with a high pH.
The reason diesel works better is that it is more viscous (thicker) - carries solids around better.
I agree with you 100% on blowing back down the line and also a radiator shop
to clean the tank (if you can find one that will do it - most of those guys
have either retired or are planning to!).
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George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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You are absolutely correct as to the definition of "caustic." I was using sloppy language and should have said "poison" or some such other better equivalent ;)
My tanks (both 122s) didn't have a piece of hose, is that a wagon peculiarity? I agree that hoses should be replenished regularly. I have a seal under the cap and one around the filler neck where is protrudes through the body.
I should know better than to talk in generalities with cars that underwent evolutionary change over the course of their production... sigh.
Ja, diesel is "thicker" but I meant that it is less likely to produce fumes that will be explosive under normal operating conditions than gasoline and it is more "friendly" to the system than water (if you are leery of using water).
The fuel line is probably 5/16" but the ding-dong fittings were definitely metric. I used flare-wrenches where I could (to no avail) and they are particularly sensitive to being the correct size. I agree that is was an odd place (especially as the pipe-thread in the tank was 1/4"IP).
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Mike!
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"Irritating" and "Smelly and messy" come to mind...
The wagon has the filler neck screwed tight to the body shell and a piece
of hose between that and the filler stub on the tank, which comes out the
left side of the tank, NOT high enough. They slop badly on a hard right
turn, alarming fellow motorists and pedestrians alike, especially smokers and
especially when the tank is full. There is sort of a "seal" on the gas cap
but I wouldn't bet on it being functional at the internal pressures it sees
under a hard turn.
BTW 5/16" = 0.3125"
8mm = 0.315"
So they are only 2.5 thou different. Hoses certainly don't care and
wrenches mostly don't either.
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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Hello All:
Um, wow, I am glad I asked before digging into this. I must admit I am not quite sure how to proceed. I am really not prepared to remove the entire gas tank from the car at this point. Since the inside of this tank was refinished within the last 18 months and the car has only had 6,000 miles put on it in that time what are the odds that I might open up the fuel sender unit and find what I am looking for? It almost seems worth it to try and if I fail, then fit the new seal, close her up again and think about removing the tank. Would I need a new seal if I removed the tank within a couple of weeks of my first exploration?
Also, does anyone know where I might find a diagram of the fuel sender unit? The archive and Google turned up nothing.
Cheers,
Jeff Pucillo
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If your fuel level sender gasket is old you'll probably need to replace it.
If it is fairly new it will probably be OK. They eventually get hard and
don't conform and seal.
The sender is a variable wirewound resistor operated by a float. Once you
get it out you can see what it is/does.
Getting the tank out is not that hard, just time-consuming - lots of screws
around it.
Did you try blowing back through the line ?(where it hooks to the fuel pump,
coming from the tank - you won't be able to blow backwards through the pump.)
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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Sorry, we seem to be making this a bigger ordeal than it has to be.
Perspective: I reused my seal recently (it was in good condition, surprisingly) and have had zero leaks (there!). If it breaks on removal you will have an issue so use care.
It is worth a look. The drain plug is inconveniently far from the sender hole so getting lucky and finding the object where you can reach it immediately is remote. That is why we have been suggesting various methods of swishing "it" under the hole.
If you are very lucky, it will fall out the drain hole or stick in it so you can grab it with needle-nose pliers and pry it out.
Honestly, be safe. You may discover a method (we did not choose) to be very effective.
--
Mike!
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Hello George:
Yes, blowing through the fuel line where it enters the fuel filter (which is positioned prior to the pump) is how I dislodge the bugger when it gets in there in the first place. I first reported this problem back in September last year and you and others helped me to diagnose it. It was suggested that I put a magnet on the bottom of the tank, which I have done. The problem went away for several months and I truly believed that it had gone away. I then had the situation happen again. I can only assume that we might have temporarily trapped the thing with the magnet but it shook free.
The problem is that it happens quite abruptly and the engine just dies, naturally. I got caught out on a busy overpass in Jersey during high-volume weekend traffic and was glad that Wendy and the girls were not in harm's way with me. I want to make this go away.
I have a fresh fuel sender seal on hand so I might go the route of just opening it, seeing if I can find the offender, and then remove the tank a week or two later if I fail. The seal will certainly still be fresh at that point.
Cheers,
Jeff Pucillo
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Yes, the sender is under the mat.
It is held in by five philips head machine screws. It is under a "shield" held on by goober-schmuckum (body putty).
Once fuel is out, rinse with detergent and water. That will get rid of 90% of fume generating fuel. Don't use anything electric unless it is rated for explosive environments... Flashlights turned on and off outside the tank and held outside the tank are OK but the blower is a no-no (sparks, even from 12v are still sparks).
fishing for kaka is HARD. If you happen to spot the miscreant, I suggest something sticky on a piece of stiff wire to retrieve it. Sometimes a little water and shaking the rear-end will "swish" it into view.
When you reassemble, put in a bottle or HEET or your favorite gas-line anti-freeze as that will put any remaining residual water in suspension so it can be drawn out of the tank as you burn the gas.
--
Mike!
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Hello Mike:
Terrific suggestions, all. When you say "rinse with detergent and water" are we talking about Comet? Do I point the hose down in there?
Great call on Heet.
Cheers,
Jeff Pucillo
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Opinions will vary but...
Before you pull the sender unit squirt a table spoon or so of Dawn dish detergent (or whatever you got) into the tank and put in a few gallons of water. Wiggle the rear to slosh it around and drain. Repeat with clear water to "full full" (running out filler) slosh and drain.
With a clean-ish tank like you describe, that should be enough. Mine was so nasty (and as it turned out, perforated) that I ended up at the radiator shop anyway.
--
Mike!
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Seems like every thread I see on the Brickboard relates to some problem I have, or am going to have! I guess that comes from having "too many" Volvos. My '68 wagon stinks of gas when I fill it to full. It's a shortcoming of the 122 wagons that the filler neck is so low, anyway. But, I seem to see a seepage around the part where the filler neck joins to the actual tank. Is it possible that the weld/solder there has cracked, or separated? I've experienced this same problem with 122 sedans, but this is my first 122 wagon. Taking the tank out for a flush and scrub every 5 years, or so sounds like good preventive maintainance to me. Suggestions?
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Seems like every thread I see on the Brickboard relates to some problem I have, or am going to have! I guess that comes from having "too many" Volvos. My '68 wagon stinks of gas when I fill it to full. It's a shortcoming of the 122 wagons that the filler neck is so low, anyway. But, I seem to see a seepage around the part where the filler neck joins to the actual tank. Is it possible that the weld/solder there has cracked, or separated? I've experienced this same problem with 122 sedans, but this is my first 122 wagon. Taking the tank out for a flush and scrub every 5 years, or so sounds like good preventive maintainance to me. Suggestions?
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Have you tried tightening the clamps on the hose? Sure helped mine!
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George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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