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Houston problem solved! 200

uid 4357's pic
posted by  nelson on  Fri Apr 22 13:10 CST 2005
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last visit: Tue Nov 6 12:52 CST 2001
[RELATED]

I previously posted about my 90 no start problem.Her is the break down. I bypassed the fuel pump relay and the car started. Replaced the relay and all went well. Drove it to work and it conked out again. This time by-passing relay did not work,fuel pump failed. Replaced fuel pump but still no start.Found out no signal coming from ECU. Replaced my pink 561 with a 951 and now all is well.
Two things have me baffled. The first relay that I by-passed does in fact work. It is the one I am currently running on the car.My 5 spare relays also work.Why did the car run with the second good relay when the first one was ok,before the pump went?
Also my 87 uses the same relay. the car is in good working order.When I switch relays between cars, the relay on the 87 will not allow the 90 to start. Same relay and part number.The 90 relay will allow the 87 to start but not turn off. What gives? Same part number.It's as if each car knows it has anothers part and refuses to cooperate.Any thoughts?
Also thanks to Dan,
Nelson

ps if you plan on keeping your car and have a 561 ecu get a spare 951 NOW!







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    Houston problem solved! 200

    posted by  Aye Roll on  Fri Apr 22 15:24 CST 2005
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    last visit: Tue Oct 14 21:08 CST 2014
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    One of the things the computer apparently does is provide a ground path for the fuel pump relay- on the failed unit this ground path apparently is lost.

    As for the differences in operation between two relays, well, it is possible to plug them in backwards. They usually buzz and click when you do this. Is it possible you connected one of them backwards, and that in the otehr car you swapped them before the dead ECU was changed? Just my $0.02.
    --
    Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: Roterande Fläkt Och Drivremmar!








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      Houston problem solved! 200

      uid 4357's pic
      posted by  nelson on  Mon May 2 14:45 CST 2005
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      last visit: Tue Nov 6 12:52 CST 2001
      [RELATED]

      Relays were plugged in correctly. I have now purchased a brand new relay from FCP that I will swapping between cars to see what happens.Thanks to all for your help,
      Nelson








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    Houston problem solved! 200

    posted by  Judge on  Fri Apr 22 13:37 CST 2005
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    last visit: Thu Feb 4 14:09 CST 2010
    [RELATED]

    I had the same problem a couple of weeks ago with my 90 wagon. Problem was the fuel pump relay was not getting the ground message from the 561 computer. I changed to a 951 computer and the problem was solved. I got the replacement computer from Bob Haire on the board here and I also picked up a spare from him. No idea why your relays are not working between the model years. Volvo seemed to make wiring changes on a very ramdom basis over the years, are the wire colors the same for both your model years?

    Jerry in Florida








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      Houston problem solved! 200

      posted by  hardknocks! on  Fri Apr 22 15:37 CST 2005
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      last visit: Sun Oct 12 06:42 CST 2014
      [RELATED]

      hi there, i dont think volvo made random wiring changes? exactly what situation did you find this to be true? im just wondering as this might help me learn more about my volvos. thanks

      mike in w.p.b.







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        Houston problem solved! 200 1990

        posted by  Judge on  Sat Apr 23 03:22 CST 2005
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        last visit: Thu Feb 4 14:09 CST 2010
        [RELATED]

        As an example the ground connection going into the back of my system/fuel pump relay (86/2)is green with a blue tracer. I have not found that color in either my Hayes or Bentley manual wiring diagrams. But the Bentley manual does show blue/green on page 241-10 figure 8, book edition 7/93. Maybe Volvo is consistent and the manuals are wrong.

        Jerry in Jupiter
        1990 245 Wagon








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          Houston problem solved! 200 1990

          uid 18083's pic
          posted by  lucid on  Sat Apr 23 05:22 CST 2005
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          last visit: Fri Oct 24 12:31 CST 2014
          [RELATED]

          The fuel relay ground has been Blue/Green since the early '80s LH 2.0 system.
          Check the Bentley diagram on 390-46 (the '89 diagram is easier to read, and has the same FI as your '90). The FI relay is item #217 in grid L5. The BL/GN wire is shown between ECU 20 and fuel relay 86/2.

          I don't care for the Haynes manual, but checked and found the BL/GN wire shown on pages:
          4A-27, item #15, terminal 85 to ECU 17,
          4A-28, item "E", terminal 86/2 to ECU 17,
          4A-29, item "N", terminal 2 (actually 86/2)

          I've found Volvo wire colors to be pretty consistent, but the diagrams do take some getting used to. And the blotchy reproductions don't help a lot.


          --
          Bruce Young
          '93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.








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            Houston problem solved! 200 1990

            posted by  Judge on  Sat Apr 23 11:08 CST 2005
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            last visit: Thu Feb 4 14:09 CST 2010
            [RELATED]

            Hi Lucid:

            You are right about the quality of the wiring diagrams, they are bad. I have been referring to the wire colors going to the "fuel pump relay" that Bentley shows for both the 89 and 90 years at position B1 (B2), #99 on the wiring diagram.

            Looks like Bentley is still showing separate main/system and fuel pump relays. The colors for item 217 make sense now. That looks like the combined relay.

            Jerry








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              Houston problem solved! 200 1990

              uid 18083's pic
              posted by  lucid on  Sat Apr 23 11:41 CST 2005
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              last visit: Fri Oct 24 12:31 CST 2014
              [RELATED]

              Volvo is a world car and the diagrams have to cover all. That #99 relay is for the K-jetronic FI, which is still used some places -- UK for one, I believe. Question any dotted lines, and get familiar with the back section "inserts". Don't fault Bentley too much, they are just showing copies of the Volvo diagrams.
              --
              Bruce Young
              '93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.








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                Houston problem solved! 200 1990

                posted by  Judge on  Sat Apr 23 13:47 CST 2005
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                last visit: Thu Feb 4 14:09 CST 2010
                [RELATED]

                I think the Bentley manual is the best around. They do state that their manual is "created specifically to cover Volvo cars built for sale in the United States" so I am not sure why they are including relay information for the K-jetronic FI. Enough said, I would like to get a hold of the wire diagram for my model from a Volvo green book, then I would feel more confident in trying to figure out some of these pain in the butt electrical problems.

                Thanks.

                Jerry








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                  Houston problem solved! 200 1990

                  uid 18083's pic
                  posted by  lucid on  Sun Apr 24 02:04 CST 2005
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                  last visit: Fri Oct 24 12:31 CST 2014
                  [RELATED]

                  " I think the Bentley manual is the best around. They do state that their manual is "created specifically to cover Volvo cars built for sale in the United States" so I am not sure why they are including relay information for the K-jetronic FI."

                  The Bentley text and procedures are aimed at "Volvo cars built for sale in the United States". As for the K-jet coverage, I neglected to point out that it's not just for UK cars, but also applies our 240 Turbos. And it's also largely applicable to non-turbo K-jet cars as well.

                  "I would like to get a hold of the wire diagram for my model from a Volvo green book, then I would feel more confident in trying to figure out some of these pain in the butt electrical problems."

                  You can buy the green book diagrams for your year 240 for around $30 from Volvo, or get good used copied on eBay from "skipskip" (I think that's his ebay ID. He is a forum member here too, posting as "skip".)

                  But as I mentioned before, the Bentley diagrams are direct reproductions of the fold-out comprehensive* diagrams from the 240 green books -- so they are accurate. The hard part is learning how to follow off-page references to relate things like the fuel pumps (items 100 and 97 in grids "B-1" and "C-1", to the combined LH Main relay output terminals in grids "L-5" or "J-3" (depending on year).

                  Unfortunately, those references only work from relay-to-pump — but not from pump to relay. So you need to be aware of those "model-specific" sections in the H—N grid squares. It also helps to know about changes in terminology — such as the K-jet "Fuel Pump" relay (99) becoming the LH "Main" relay, B230F (217) in our previous wire color example.

                  I believe that the info you want is largely there in the Bentley (Volvo) diagrams, but there is definitely a "navigation" learning curve to climb.

                  * For an example Volvo green book detail wiring diagram, see page 4A-28 in your Haynes manual, which is for the '85-'86 LH 2.2. The Bentley (Volvo) diagrams are a summary compilation of such detail pages.

                  Hope this helps,

                  Bruce

                  --
                  Bruce Young
                  '93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.







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