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Hard warm start

posted by  Mark Coffey on  Sat Apr 16 18:13 CST 2005
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last visit: Tue Dec 7 16:16 CST 2010
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I have a 1990 245 with approx. 200k miles. I have owned it since 70K miles and have enjoyed everymoment with this car. Recently it has given me a hard time starting when warm. When I go out to the car first thing in the morning, it starts right up but after a 5 or 10 min. run it will not catch on the first time and then it would always fired after releasing the key and trying it again. It is now to about the third effort. I have had several things looked at including the injectors which are in excellent condition. I have a new fuel filter, a new tank pump and complete tune up. The mechanic did say that the pressure coming out of the fuel pump regulator was suprizing. At the time I didn't pay that much attention to his comment and he didnt change the unit. Is this possibly my problem? I did recently replace the O2 sensor, never changed and my mileage was way down. I have heard that the failing pressure regulatof often causes the o2 sensor to fail? Thanks
Mark, Flagstaff, AZ








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    Hard warm start (Fuel Pump Check Valve?) 200 1990

    uid 18083's pic
    posted by  lucid on  Mon Apr 25 01:05 CST 2005
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    last visit: Fri Oct 24 12:31 CST 2014
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    What about the Check Valve at the fuel pump outlet?

    My understanding is that the CV is meant to help on warm starts by maintaining a "residual" pressure in the system to prevent vapor lock (bubbles) at the fuel rail caused by heat soak from the hot engine.

    The CV is not meant to hold pressure for long periods. The spec is to maintain at least 1.0 BAR (14.5 psi) for 20 minutes (typical "warm start" problem time.)
    --
    Bruce Young
    '93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.








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    Hard warm start

    posted by  c_j_mooney on  Sat Apr 16 18:31 CST 2005
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    last visit: Wed Sep 14 17:39 CST 2011
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    Hi Mark,
    Your symptoms sound typical of a failing crank position sensor, located at the top of the bellhousing where it meets the block. The wire comes up and meets the wiring harness at the firewall near the distributor. There are two versions of this sensor, one has a yellow strip on the wire just below the plug, one has white, and one's better than the other - I'm sorry though, I don't recall which is which... Someone will post that or you can check the 700/900 FAQs, it's mentioned there. May also be a failing fuel pump relay, before your next warm start attempt, tap on the relay a few times then try starting. And as you mentioned it may be a failing fuel pressure regulator, after you've stopped the car pull off the vacuum hose and check for gas leaking from the regulator. No doubt there'll be more suggestions... good luck! And try to find out what your mechanic meant by 'surprising.'
    --
    Chris, Dartmouth NS Canada 70 M-B 280SE, 83 245DL, 84 244 turbo, 90 780 turbo, 92 VW Golf








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      Hard warm start

      posted by  Mark Coffey on  Sun Apr 24 16:15 CST 2005
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      last visit: Tue Dec 7 16:16 CST 2010
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      thanks for your help chris. I had the crane sensor replaced a couple of years ago, not saying it hasn't gone bad again but dont know how to check it. I have the wire with a white strip on top. I tried to test the fuel pump relay and did not get any voltage as the manual said I should making me think this could be the problem but it seems to start fine when the engine is warm if the weather is really cold leading me to believe the relay is fine???? There is no dripage coming out of the vaccum line on the pressure regulator so I guess it must be ok. Any thoughts.
      Mark








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        Hard warm start

        posted by  c_j_mooney on  Sun Apr 24 16:30 CST 2005
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        last visit: Wed Sep 14 17:39 CST 2011
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        Mark, one thing I wonder about is your ECU. If it's original it may be one of a batch of ECUs that are failing about now, due to a poorly-designed circuit that's insulated with silicone which breaks down over time. Did you mention that your gas mileage has been bad lately? That's one of the symptoms, along with failure to provide a signal to the fuel pump relay. Check the Bosch part# on your ECU. If the last three digits begin with a 5, it's probably going to pack in soon. Make a few excursions to junkyards or Ebay, looking for an ECU to match your car (ie, turbo or NA, EGR or no EGR) with the 3 ending digits beginning with 9, such as 933. Just a thought. As for the crank sensor, if it's been replaced recently there's no reason to expect it's bad. Have you checked for any fault codes? If you don't know how, it's explained in the FAQs, same as 700/900 series with LH2.4.
        --
        Chris, Dartmouth NS Canada 70 M-B 280SE, 83 245DL, 84 244 turbo, 90 780 turbo, 92 VW Golf








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          Hard warm start

          posted by  Mark Coffey on  Mon Apr 25 15:46 CST 2005
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          last visit: Tue Dec 7 16:16 CST 2010
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          Hi Chris

          I did check fault codes, got a message meaning idle engine trying to compensate for rich/lead fuel mixture. I replaced the o2 sensor because of poor mileage and the fact that it never has been done in over 100k. Now there is no code. Isn't the code pertain only to emission problems? I will check into the other areas this next week.

          thanks for all your help.

          mark







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