|
|
|
well, i've been actively searchin for answers to my questions, hopefully i will come across the solution soon! our '85 volvo 244 sedan has ran great since we got it, until last friday, when it decided to leave my daughter on the side of the road, not getting any fire to the plugs, have run all the tests that i possibly can, and have been given some relly good suggestions/advice, but still no run, anyone have a similar situation, and how did you fix/repair, thanks, louis, sineon@hotmail.com.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Have you checked the timing belt? If car suddenly dies and no spark, may be belt.
Remove dist cap and watch for rotor movement while engine is turned over. If none, then it's the timing belt.
(Sorry not familiar with fuel injection so don't know if pumps would work if belt isn't)
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb and M46 trans
|
|
-
|
|
Test your coil circuit by momentarily grounding terminal 1, to produce a spark when you lift the ground off. If no spark, look for a reason terminal 15 is not getting power, like a corroded connector or that gray plug next to the coil. If there is spark, you want to move next to the distributor to check the hall effect sensor. Usually the problem there is with the small wiring from the connector on the side of the distributor to the hall effect sensor inside. There are, I believe, good troubleshooting tips in the 700/900 FAQs available from the pulldown menu above.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
|
|
-
|
|
|
dear art, i found what i believed to be the fuel pump relay above the fuse panel, located around the steering column. i called my local dealer, just to get a ball-park, and, get this, he tells me the relay # i gave him is for the rear glass defrost time cycle!! now, this relay fell apart in my hands when i pulled the white casing off, and since it's the only relay up underneath there, i truly am wondering if he(the part's guy) knows what the heck he's talking about, or, if i'm the one who can't find the right relay! i am getting spark from the #1 terminal to my coil, although there is no gray connector, like in the photo one of the other members posted, the connectors i did find, i cleaned and inspected, anyway. i have ordered what is supposed to be a fuel pump relay thru Ebay, i guess i'll find out if that's where my problem lies once it gets here, or i may still have problems w/ no spark. i'm wondering if the guts to the distributor got fried when(and i hope this is the right relay)fried the other day, leaving my daughter on the side of the road? do you guys have any good parts sources that you trust and buy from, that may be part of the group here?? thanks in advance, louis
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hi Louis,
Yes, there are plenty of good alternatives to dealer parts counter -- if you know what you're doing. It is easy to spend a wad of money replacing parts on a guess you are addressing the problem. Money that could easily fund a diagnosis.
In the case of your relay under the dash, the dealer parts guy is right on the money - that certainly is not the fuel pump relay. The one marked with p/n 1243675 is the rear window defroster. So in this case, the dealer's markup is well worth it, because his parts guy is providing added value - his knowledge.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
|
|
-
|
|
|
k, then i'm really back to square, i really looked, and that's the only relay up under there, other than the black Hella relay i mentioned, that's way over behind the carpet on the left of center console.....do you know the #'s on the fuel pump relay? is it also white in color? someone mentioned a "box", is what they were referring to the relay, or is it tucked away in some encasement, and that's why i can't find it? great googley moogley!! i guess i'll try again later today to locate it, maybe i'll get lucky? thanks again, louis
|
|
-
|
|
|
hey, thanks for the response, ok, where is terminal 1 you're referring to? in the fuse box? hate to sound so ignorant, but we've only had this car for three weeks, and i'm still gettin to know it. i have looked at the connections inside the distributor, and they all still seem attached. it was one of the first things i did, as that part went bad on a similar distributor on my '78 924 when i first got it. drove me mad until i figured out it had come loose, and fried the pickup inside the distributor.. also, terminal one in the fuse box is for the radio, etc. is that the circuit the ignition coil is on, also? thanks very much for your help and advice, louis
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hi Louis,
Lucid is trying to get you fuel and I am trying to get you spark. By "no fire" I assumed you don't have a spark. A defective fuel injection relay will not affect spark on your '85 DL.
Test your coil circuit by momentarily grounding terminal 1
By that, I mean coil terminal 1.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be silenceo0o0
on
Mon Apr 4 06:23 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
|
Can you hear the fuel pumps running? If not I would check the fuel pump relay...If it goes, then it takes the ignition system with it, as I found on my 78 244dl. My relay went out and I had no fuel or spark. Research the fuel pump relay and how to jump it using the 5 and 6 fuses or something like that to test the relay. Good luck.
|
|
-
|
|
|
hey, thanks for the response! yes, the pumps run when you jump #'s 4 and 6 in the fuse box, it sounds like it normally does when it's runnin. i haven't any idea where the fuel pump relay is....all i've been told is it is down under dash near the fuse panel? maybe someone can guide me thru on that one? thanks ver y much for your help, louis
|
|
-
|
|
Try starting it when you jump the fuses and run the pumps.
The jumper bypasses 2 "known fuel suspects"* and If the spark is OK, the car should start.
* Known fuel suspects:
1) Fuel relay, on inside of firewall above the passenger's feet. White plastic case.
2) 25 amp blade fuse in a separate holder mounted/tied near the coil. Can be a bad fuse, fuse holder, or fuse wiring
--
Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
|
|
-
|
|
|
hey, thanks for the response, and, now i need to know how to totally bypass the relay(which i found). have u heard that u will get no spark if the fuel pump relay doesn't work? by jumping the #4 and # 6 terminals, am i totally bypassing the fuel pump relay, and if so, will i, should i, get fire to the plugs? or does that still leave that problem to be sorted out? as far as the 25 amp fuse/holder in the + line near the battery, it appears to be clean , and making contact, i understand that controls most of the fuel system power needs, I.E:, fuel rail, pumps, etc? correct me if i'm wrong, please. this car is new to us, and i'm currently unemployed, so i just can't start changin out parts that i can't afford right now, so you guys have been an invaluable source of info, and inspiration, as my daughter's really lost w/o her car, as anyone would be! anyway if u can think of anything else, please let me know! thanks again, louis PS: i am getting power to one side of the wiring that goes to the relay(with the ignition switched on) , but not the other, not even when u turn the key, as in you are tryin to start the engine, nothin showed on my digital meter, does that mean anything important? another member said i should short out( momentarily) the #1 terminal to see if i have power to it, and then the # 15( which controls the left rear tail lights, etc.) i think i mis-understood what i was supposed to be checking for by doing that? is one of those the circuit that the ignition coil gets it's power from?
|
|
-
|
|
|
have u heard that u will get no spark if the fuel pump relay doesn't work?
• No -- that's ass-backwards. No spark means no fuel. That's why I said IF you have spark, the jumper may let you start.
"am i totally bypassing the fuel pump relay?"
• Yes. That's what I said in my 1st post.
"and if so, will i, should i, get fire to the plugs?"
• No. The fuel relay has nothing to do with ignition
1) Did you try starting with pumps running as I suggested? If so, what happened?
2) There are 2 relays in the fuel relay case. Can you hear/feel one of the click when key is turned ON (not to start)? Yes? No?
3) The 2nd relay in there controls fuel. It won't turn on till cranking, but only IF the ecu sees an "OK" from the ignition cu. Then the Fuel ECU will ground the fuel relay to turn it on.
It's a waste of time to say,"am getting power to one side of the wiring that goes to the relay".
4) What color wire or terminal number? Yellow 30? Red/Black 85?
Art's earlier suggestion was about the Coil primary terminals (the numbers are on the coil). #15 should be +12V with Key on. He said to hook a jumper from #1 terminal to ground. When you remove it, there should be a spark from the fat high tension wire (place it close to a body part so you can see the spark).
But usually the coil and ignition system are OK.
--
Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
|
|
-
|
|
|
ok bruce,here goes....did try to start w/ pumps running, nothing happened
2)so, the fuel pump relay doesn't prevent it from getting fire?
3)i found one relay, white in color, says Cartier, made in France, didn't know there were two.....there was no "case", just the one white relay w/ a clip installed so you can find a spot to keep it from gettin tangled @ your feet..
4)i did listen for a click, both when i energized the system, and, when i tried to turn it over..... got nothin there either.
5)as for the color of the wire on the white relay that was gettin power, it was yellow in color, i believe. i'll go back thru and write down the corresponding #'s to the positions on the relay tomorrow.
6)i did see some #'s on the ignition coil underneath the black plastic cover, the one that covers the + and - markings, i will try this again tomorrow.again, i don't mean to sound ignorant, i just want to be sure of what i'm doin, i don't want to make a bad situation worse, i appreciate your patience. i have already ordered another fuel pump relay off of ebay, hope it's right.
7)is the other relay close to where the first one is? and, do you know what color it is? i found another relay, black in color near the center console hump, it's marked Hella, don't suppose that has anything to do w/ this situation?
8)is this something that happens on all these cars? the volvo i had way back in the early 80's ran and ran until the floorboards rotted through, what a great car! i hope i can manage to solve this puzzle, and get on with some other things i'd like to do for my daughter's car, like, gettin it to look like it's supposed to,etc. again, thanks for your time and patience, louis
|
|
-
|
|
|
Before we go too far here, did you check the timing belt as Trev29 suggested at the top of this thread? No belt=no spark=no fuel=No Start.
ok bruce,here goes....did try to start w/ pumps running, nothing happened
• That tends to indicate no spark.
2)so, the fuel pump relay doesn't prevent it from getting fire?
• No, the fuel pump relay doesn't prevent it from getting fire. How can I convince you?
3)i found one relay, white in color, says Cartier, made in France, didn't know there were two.....there was no "case", just the one white relay w/ a clip installed so you can find a spot to keep it from gettin tangled @ your feet.
• No, that's not the fuel relay. (By "case" I meant relay box, case, cover or whatever. A white relay cover with 2 separate relay coils inside. Part # probably 1347603.
4)i did listen for a click, both when i energized the system, and, when i tried to turn it over..... got nothin there either.
• That may mean nothing if you weren't close to the "real" fuel relay, over above the passenger's toes -- and the black felt panel was still in place.
However, if you were (or are tonight) trying again to hear the click at Key On, and don't hear it, then the 25 amp fuse you checked (AND it's wiring) are very much suspect.
5)as for the color of the wire on the white relay that was gettin power, it was yellow in color, i believe.
• I tossed out the wrong color before. On the fuel relay you should see:
> Key OFF: +12V on terminal 30 (Red) and 86-1 (Yel/Blk). Nothing on the other 4 terminals
> Key ON II: +12V on 30, and T85 (Red/Black), T86-2 (Blue/Green) and T87-1 (Orange). T86-1 (Yel/Blk) should now be grounded (0 Volts)
>Key ON III Cranking: Watch for T86-2 to go from solid +12V to Zero Volts (or maybe pulsing. I'm not sure) as the ECU grounds it (No change means no energizing of the Fuel relay).
6)i did see some #'s on the ignition coil underneath the black plastic cover, the one that covers the + and - markings
• OK, look for +12V at #15 with Key On. Pull a plug and with wire attached, lay it someplace so it's metal part touches car metal. Touch a grounded jumper to Coil #1 for a second, then take it off. The plug should spark as the wire comes OFF of #1 terminal. Repeat a few times to be sure you have spark or don't. (I expect you will, as the coil is 99% bullet proof.)
i have already ordered another fuel pump relay off of ebay, hope it's right.
• It's a little soon to be buying parts, when we haven't found the problem yet.
7)is the other relay close to where the first one is?
• I guess by now you read Evan's post, and know what I meant about 2 relays in one white box. Like I said, you should at least hear/feel the 1st one click at Key On. If not, you're dead right there -- no power to the AMM or ECU. That's where the voltage tests at #5 above will help.
8)is this something that happens on all these cars?
• C'mon ! It's 20 years old! Stuff happens -- and we don't even know what "this" is yet.
--
Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
|
|
-
|
|
|
ok, finally found the right one, let me tell you guys why i couldn't find it/ see it in the first umpteen attempts! someone had zip-tied/ tie-wrapped, whtever you want to call those things,the fuel pump relay, to some black box gizmo i suspect has something to do w/ the radio? way the hell up in the upper recesses of the dash......anyway, i got the thing out, and it is defective, as it only energizes on one side. if you take a thin blade screwdriver and force the other winding to make contact, you can definitely hear the pumps running! so, hopefully, i am on the right track. battery is low in charge so i will charge it over night, and recheck for spark in the AM.as far as the age of the car, yea, i expected some stuff to go wrong w/ it, so i guess this is the beginnin of what it's gonna take to get her back in good runnin order. judgin by the amounts of leaves and algae in spots, it sat up for a while, so i've got my work cut out for me! thanks again for all the tech info, it sure helps narrow down some of the electronic headaches that incur when chasin down bad relays, etc.and, yes, i now understand what you meant by two in one "box". again, i guess i just couldn't see the forest for the trees, but i'm gettin there, thanks to you guys! another issue is, i don't have a gray connector next to the coil on this car, but i did find two others that i cleaned, and inspected, as thet needed it anyway. i think they have something to do with the driver's side lights, high/low beam wiring. i will look for evan's posts when i complete this response, as i'm just now gettin to check my emails, etc. tahnks again for your patience, and your time and knowledge, louis. by the way, the timing belt IS the first thing i checked, as it was the first service procedure i had to perform less than 48 hrs. after we brought the car home, as the crank gear for the timing belt was spun, meaning the keys had broken off, and it wasn't firing because the gears weren't turning!
|
|
-
|
|
|
It's 20 years old! Stuff happens
Thanks for reminding me how time flies. Just five years ago my 84 was a mere adolescent at 16. I suppose that explains the new outbreaks of rust, as it now is old enough to drink.
Well, I'm here and I don't know what to say.
What was the question?
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks Bruce,
You earned your nickname again with that explanation!
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
|
|
|
|
|
