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extremely poor running 900 1992

... and though I hate to admit it, I'm stumped for now.

Sorry if it's a bit long, I'm trying to detail what I've tested/done
already. Spent all ******** evening on it. I've got a feeling I'm missing
something blindingly obvious, but I'm out of ideas for now. Couple of
concrete questions at the end.

The basics: '92 940GL, B230FB engine (531 head/VX3 cam/otherwise same as a
B230F), LH2.4, 935 computer

It came in as one of those "multi problem" cars. Water leak (from the head
gasket as it turned out), very poor starting, sort-of-OK'ish running.
Pre-existing additional problem: Often fails to energize the main fuel
pump when turning on ignition. Sometimes the pump starts running during
starting or you can hear it run for a few secs after turning off the car
(or after it died)

First things first, I put on a new head gasket, exchange head
(resurfaced/checked/new guides and exhaust valves) as it was a dual fuel
conversion that was near the end of its exhaust seats anyway, new timing
belt, tensioner, spark plugs, rotor/cap, water pump... Closed it up
yesterday evening. Tonight I started it up first time to work on the
running problems.

The rest of the story involves only the gasoline part of the dual fuel
system, so ignore the propane for now.

After the head job it sprang into life, briefly. Idled around 2000rpm for
half a minute or so, running sort'a rough, then started adjusting the idle
down (as it should). Sounds like it's running on 3 cylinders or missing.

it's still very hard to start, and when it's running it runs extremely
rough and backfires (although with my hand on the ducting I think it's
also forward-firing into the airbox). It also tends to die after between 5
and about 60 seconds.

Now remember I've got plenty of spareparts, so swapping is essentially
free to me.

Easiest possibilities first, gambling on ignition, thinking that if it's
backfiring there should be fuel but a lack of spark leading to fuel in the
intake or exhaust system.

I swapped the crank position sensor just in case, same for the ignition
wires. No change.

Moving towards the fuel system, I swapped the computer, EFI relay and AMM
just in case they were bad. No change. Then I took out the plugs. Here it
gets interesting: The rear plug (4) looks normal for a car that's been
idling (badly): somewhat black. plug 3 is less black, plug 2 has only the
slightest hint of black, and plug 1 looks brand new, it's never seen an
ignition even in its life.

At this point the wires, computer, AMM, CPS and EFIrelay are swapped.
Since component swapping didn't seem to make any difference (does it
ever? One can hope...) all orginal components were put back in at this
stage.

Here is where it sort of becomes interesting:

Take out the fuel rails, put a bit of kitchen paper under it, and crank it
a bit. injector 4 has about a half playing card gas stain, 2 and 3 about a
quarter (coin) sized stain, 1 less than a dime-sized stain. Sounds like a
fuel system issue, right? Change the fuel pressure regulator. No change.
Jumper the pump from a starterpack, now the kitchen paper get a nice even
soaking of fuel. Fine, problem solved. Too bad: Put the fuel rails back
in, try to fire it up with the pump definitely running (jumpered). Ran
poorly for about 20 seconds and died. This is what it did previously, too,
so no change, again. Took plug 1 out again, still looks like it's never
seen a drop of fuel or a single combustion even in its life.

For good measure I rechecked the timingbelt, that seems to be OK and
correctly set...

So now we're basically left with two issues:

1- looking at the plugs it seems to be running on cylinder 4, cyl 2 and 3
are in for half and cylinder 1 isn't getting any fuel. No wonder it runs
like $#!^ and dies when the computer regulates the fuel down as it senses
the engine is heating up slightly from cold. But why that strange fuel
distribution?

2- what could cause the main fuel pump not to run? Hope it isn't the
propane system overriding it. Oh well, I can always run a 'hot when
ignition on' jumper wire if I have to solve that problem in a hurry.








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    Somewhat resolved (was: extremely poor running) 900 1992

    I looked at fuel pressure testers today, but the only thing they had
    available (and not even in stock) was a E350 (about $450) Midlock kit.
    Thanks but no thanks, I'll pick one up next time I'm stateside.

    Anyway, new (used) pump, new fuel filter, check clearances and timing (in
    spec), basically ripped a whole lot of stuff around the intake manifold
    apart and built it up again, and it runs.

    Still occasionally starts poorly but I suspect that's the dual fuel
    conversion playing silly buggers with the injection system Ώ], so I'll
    just install a bypass that makes the fuel pump hot whenever the ignition
    is on. Looking under the dash (to resolve an unrelated problem with the
    cruise control) I saw an unholy mess of wiring bodges, and only your
    favorite Deity knows what all those wires do to each other. I have no
    moral qualms about adding another wire to the cable salad if that gets
    the car out of the shop.

    Thanks for all your suggestions.

    Bram

    Ώ] it's supposed to turn off the fuel pump when it's running on propane.
    Saves wear and tear on the pump. Sometimes it's a bit too effective at
    turning off the pump.








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    extremely poor running 900 1992

    From the description of the fuel spray differences and plug appearance, it sounds like the individual injectors have problems. The pressure in the fuel rail is the exact same for all injectors - they're just little outlets plugged into the same large pipe. How much fuel then comes through is therefore dependent on: (1) injector electrical response to the pulses from the computer (grounding pulses), (2) the injector's state of cleanliness/plugging.

    Try swapping injectors around and see if the non-firing cylinder now becomes the location where you put the (former) #1 injector. If so, voila.
    --
    Bob (son's 81-244GL B21F, dtr's 83-244DL B23F, 'my' 94-944 B230FD; plus grocery-getter Dodge minivan, hobbycar 77 MGB, and numerous old motorcycles)








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    extremely poor running 900 1992

    You're SURE you got the firing order right.....?
    --
    George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!








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      extremely poor running 900 1992

      Quite. Checked it against the number embossed on the cap cover, checked it against my own car, and Volvos have had a 2-1-3-4 firing order for as long as I can remember.



      Bram








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        extremely poor running 900 1992

        Really! I thought it was 1-3-4-2, or maybe it is 1-5-3-6-2-4.....
        (snicker!)
        --
        George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!








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          extremely poor running 900 1992

          Have you looked at the way the cables are on a rear-mounted 740/940 distributor? 2-1-3-4 is definitely it.

          But I agree that real cars use 1-5-3-6-2-4

          Bram








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            extremely poor running 900 1992

            Sorry to disagree, but REAL engines have a firing order of 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.

            Bob K

            '94 945T (college daughter)
            '99 S80 (mom-in-law)
            '88 240DL (son)
            '84 242Ti (for sale)
            '89 560SL (better half's)
            '88 300TE (should be the daughter's but she prefers the 945 so its my commuter)
            '68 GT500KR (under restoration)








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    extremely poor running 900 1992

    Dear Bram,

    Good p.m. and may this find you well. Two thoughts:

    (a) radio interference suppression relay aka fuel injection relay. This is in the engine bay passenger side (USA/Canada models), forward of the ABS hydraulic unit, up against the inner fender wall. This relay controls power flow to the fuel injectors. It is about 1" square, and about two inches long. Black or brown. If this is what you mean by the "EFI" relay, then you've covered it.

    (b) fuel pump relay. This is on the main relay block, behind the ashtray on the front center console. It is on the left hand (driver-side) end of the second row. It may be working intermittently.

    (c) the main fuel pump may be "shot". This is a coincidental failure, not caused by other problems. A weak main pump may account for full pressure at #4, but nothing at #1.

    Hope one of these ideas helps you towards smooth running.

    Yours faithfully,

    spook








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      What years had the same front fenders?? 900 1992

      Hi,

      thanks for your suggestions.

      (a) I'll have to check if we've got that suppression relay. Don't think so. I'll look where the ABS unit would've been if this car would've had ABS. But by EFI relay I was referring to the white one behind the ashtray.

      (b)yes, checked that (swapped it for another one, no difference).

      (c)could be, it's getting on in age. A fuel pressure tester is one of the few things I don't yet have...

      Bram








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    extremely poor running 900 1992

    Have you checked the fuel pressures and regulator?








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      extremely poor running 900 1992

      Don't have a fuel pressure tester, did swap the regulator, no difference.








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        extremely poor running 900 1992

        In the absence of a pressure gauge, try carefully, gradually pinching the return line from the fuel rail when it's running. It should make the car run way too rich, by increasing the rail pressure well beyond operating pressure. If not - if you can pinch the line closed and it still runs, but as crappily as ever, there's insufficient fuel pressure. Pinched shut, it should flood out. Do this only briefly though, as a working fuel pump should produce easily double the working system pressure & you don't want to place undue strain on the system.
        -Chris







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