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I recently decide to rebuild the brakes on my 1972 142s. While I was at it I figured why not put the vented discs and calipers (ate)front and rear for a 164, thinking it would be an upgrade. I now can't get a good pedal, it is very low, soft, and spongy as if it has a lot of air in the system. I have flushed out the system, bled it according to the manual, replaced the MC, (bench bled first) bled everything from the top down, yet no change?
Is it just not compatible to put the vented rotors and calipers on a 142 or am I missing something?
I would appreciate any suggestions.
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I have done this to three of my 140's over my Volvo career and have had great results. From what I can tell the calipers are the same just that the 164 calipers are slightly wider it the bridge where the to halves of the caliper come together to accommodate the wider rotor. I don't think the caliper holding more fluid is your problem. I have always a pressure bleeder like the one IPD sells, a great investment! I would try to get your hands on a pressure bleeder, bleed in the order that the manual tells you and did you change out you old rubber brake lines? This can give you a mushy pedal also. For what its worth I hope this helps.
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Hi, thank you for your information and inspiration. Now I know it can be done, (I thought so)
I am going from girling to ATE. But I still see no problem with that.
I am using a pressure bleeder and I did follow the manual. I am starting to think that either the MC (reman) is bad still, or I damaged a caliper or brake line when I first put them on by accidently switching the brake lines and screwing it in wrong. I put new brake lines on it as I was doing all of this, so the calipers, rotors, MC, and the brake hoses are all new/reman.
I will probably take it all apart again and re-do it.
Thank you.
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If you put on or attached a line improperly, it would leak! That's all a line can do: leak, or not leak. If you can't find any dripping fluid, it's not a problem and you need to look elsewhere. Like the other guy wrote, if there are no leaks, don't undo all of what you did.
I suspect that there's only one bad part -- and my guess is, assuming that you've bled it properly, that it's the Master Cylinder -- that's consistent with all your symptoms.
If you're reluctant to spend the money for another M/C, first bleed all the calipers two or three more times. It's not hard, and with a good pressure bleeder it doesn't take long -- and such a thorough bleeding will leave no doubt that the only other possibility is the M/C, and thus justify the expense.
Good Luck.
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posted by
someone claiming to be anthony
on
Thu Oct 28 17:48 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Humm... I seriously think it's air in the system, or else you have a bad MC. (But I doubt it.) Cause if something is wrong, it would be leaking, not feeling mushy.
It took me a real long time to get all the air out of my 144... a real pain to get all the air out. Have alot of fuild go out of each nipple. I ended up circulating alot of fluid...
Hope it all goes well.
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Are you using a pressure bleeder and bleeding in the right order?
Obviously the vented calipers will hold more fluid, being wider, but the
amount of volume change with brake application should be the same.
But those systems are a BEAR to get bled properly.
Also did you remove the brake fault switch before bleeding? Sometimes
that will activate, especially if bleeding by pumping up the pedal and
it isolates half the system, air and all.
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Hi, thank you for responding.
I did remove the brake warning switch, ( is that the fault switch?) I also am using a pressure bleeder, as I have no one to help w/ pumping the pedal. I did replace the MC but with a remanufactured one and I am starting to think that it may be faulty, ( I will look at it this weekend).
I may just take the whole thing apart and re-assmble.
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Unless something is leaking, I would NOT take it apart. That would be a step
backward. And if you have something screwed together wrong, it WILL leak.
I would carefully bleed again, being careful to get ALL the bubbles
out and making sure the MC doesn't get too low during the process.
Observe the order given in the manual strictly, and don't go on to the
next bleeder valve until you're SURE.
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Usually those symptoms would indicate that the master cylinder is too small for the caliper upgrade. But I don't know if the vented version calipers actually use more brake fluid compared to the stock 140 stuff. If the 164 calipers take more fluid to slow the car down the same amount, that's why your pedal feels mushy and the pedal is low...
That's not necessarily a good explanation at all, but I think you get the drift of it. Now if only someone could confirm that the 164 vented caliper system uses more fluid than the stock non vented 140 series cars... Maybe it's a ATE vs. Girling thing? Did your 140 have ATE or girlings stock? Not that I know anything about them, just throwing out possiblities. Hope this helps! And good luck! AND, let us know more about this swap when you get it figured out please =D
--
Kyle - '68 Volvo 142 w/71 b20b and m40...
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posted by
someone claiming to be Ted
on
Thu Oct 28 12:17 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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I hate to say this because its not good news and I would most certainly get a second opinoin before moving forward but it has been my experience that when the brake pedal still goes to the floor after repeated bleeding and nothing is leaking or bulgeing that replacing the master cylinder may very well be in order. It is a very good idea to spend more and buy a new one not a reconditioned one. If it has been a long time since the rubber brake lines were last replaced I would replace them as well.
-Ted
'74 144GL
'59 PV445
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