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Hi.
Recently was gifted a 84 244 DL (engine B23F) with 295k km.
It failed emissions on the NOx test, and I took out the AMM to see if it was clean, not clogged, etc. It looked fine, so I re-installed and now the car won't start. It turns over, and it seems really close to starting but it won't happen. I tried dis-connecting the connector into the AMM to see if sometow it was being tricked by false readings but still it didn't work. Other information is that I had disconnected the oxygen sensor but did not remove it so that I could check the voltage using a meter. I've been disconnecting the battery as I work on the car and then reconnecting it. Could I have messed up the ECU at all? My guess is that somehow the fuel mixture is too lean now, and there isn't enough fuel being injected but I haven't touched the fuel system at all. The other thing is that the car was given to me with about only about an 1/8th of a tank of gas - just above the orange line.
Thanks for any help in advance,
Chris
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I would first determine if it's a fuel or ignition problem (ignition problems will stop fuel operation). Jumper the Left side of fuse # 7 to the Left side of fuse #5. Pumps should both run immediately. If you hear the main pump (under the car, behind driver), try starting.
A - If it starts, ignition is OK. Jumper bypassed a fuel problem.
B - Still fails, probable ignition problem.
There are more detailed tests, but half of them would be a waste of time without knowing if its A or B.
If the car has been idle for some time, corrosion may be a problem. Carefully check the 25 amp fuse, its holder, and wiring, as mentioned earlier. Also check fuse #13, which powers the Fuel relay.
That ignition system is known to have connection (resistance) problems. Try a jumper wire from battery Positive to Coil terminal 15. Also work the coil primary connectors off and on a few times.
Let us know if it's "A" or "B".
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
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Thanks to all for the help. She starts now.
I tried the advice on the A vs B. I jumpered together fuse 5, and fuse 7. I heard a pump whirling. I also cleaned off the ingnition coil connectors with a wire brush. I thought I would hear two pumps (one in the tank, one under the passenger seat) but I think I only heard one (the main one). I even took the fuel cap off to try and hear in the fuel tank, as my fiance nervously held the jumper between the fuses. However, after doing all this I tried starting and she started up.
Now:
1) She (the Volvo) revs periodically between 800 and 1000 rpm. Maybe a 2 second period.
2) It stalled once in idle, and I heard an alarm-type whirring sound from the front of the passenger foot well. I removed the cover and found a new looking black box from Dyna Corp, Toledo, OH attached to the firewall on the passenger side with lots of wires going in and coming out. My first thought was that it was strange to see American parts in a European car. It has a sensitivy adjustment, and a 'low speed sw adj' turnscrew. Could it have something do with the radio which is Sony and newish looking?
I'm a little puzzled but wondering about my next steps to get her revving nicely, and starting consistently. Up until this week it hadn't run for 1 year. I've put new Bosch sparkplugs in, and changed the oil and filter.
Thanks for the help,
Chris
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Sound like you have the "A" condition, verifying that the Ignition will provide spark at the plugs, and that the fuse jumper compensated for a Fuel problem . (The Dana box is the cruise control brain, so we can ignore that for now.) We can come back to the Tank pump later too—a separate thread would be less cluttered.
"1) She (the Volvo) revs periodically between 800 and 1000 rpm. Maybe a 2 second period."
Not sure I understand this. It starts and idles OK, but with rpm variation over 2 seconds? Or starts, revs 800-1000rpm, then stalls after 2 seconds?
"I heard an alarm-type whirring sound from the front of the passenger foot well."
That could be due to low voltage—enough to energize (close) relays but too low to support the resulting load demands. This causes the relay(s) to "drop" again and the cycle repeats—at a rapid, buzzing rate. (See Item #1 below.)
"Up until this week it hadn't run for 1 year."
That puts a new light on things, making corrosion and low voltage even more of a consideration. Should we assume that you did get it running for inspection, as mentioned in your first post? And since then it won't start? Or what?
In any case, here's a shotgun approach to the Fuel problem (Items #1 and #2 were suggested before, but are repeated, since you didn't mention looking at them) —
1) Thoroughly check and clean the 25 amp blade fuse near the Ignition Coil, including its wire leads and connections. Replace the fuse, if you have one. (Problems here have been known to cause the "relay buzzing" symptom—and worse.)
2) Same thing for fuse #13, which powers the fuel relay. Do fuse #12 too, in case I'm wrong here (83-84 change)
3) Find the FI System and Fuel relays. (Should be above the passenger's feet, clipped on inner firewall.) They are about 1" square, metal cased. Remove and replace the harness connector plugs on each relay 2 or 3 times to improve possible poor electrical contacts.
4) Test the AMM again (this time with fuse jumper forcing the pumps, etc.) If it starts and idles reasonably well with AMM disconnected, the AMM is probably bad. Double-check by reconnecting it (Key OFF) and trying again—manipulating the plug may have improved the connection.
Keep us posted,as they say,
Bruce
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
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Thanks Bruce,
The site seems to been down recently. I will list what I have done, and the consequences.
1) I have removed and cleaned all leads on the ignition coil.
2) I have replaced fuses 5,7, 12, and 13.
3) I have thoroughly cleaned, and checked the 25 amp blade fuse near the battery. I didn't replace it but it looks fine. The old joke about testing fuses applies I suppose though.
4) I have found the two relays above the passenger's feet and they are both Bosch plastic-cased relays with five leads in a cross pattern. I removed and cleaned the leads with a wirebrush for both relays. One has a black case (newer looking) and one is off-white (older looking). They hang loosely and are not clipped onto the firewall.
Finally, it was starting reasonably well last week so I took it out for a spin to the local parking lot. It's about a 1 mile drive. Once there I went over a speed bump, and the engine stalled and then wouldn't restart very well. When it finally did restart it kept stalling as I was driving. It was a very frustrating night to say the least. The most important thing I noticed was that just before it would fail I would get the buzzing sound again at the fuel relay. I think (guessing really) that ignition isn't a problem but fuel seems to be. Somekind of low-voltage at the relay or maybe the fuel filter/pump isn't working well. As I said before it hasn't been driven in over 16months.
Another thing, on the night it wasn't running well, I tried jumpering fuses 5, and 7 together to no avail. It didn't help it start, but I could here the pump running. It only seemed to start when the relay started buzzing.
Since then it hasn't been starting at all.
Thanks,
Chris
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Chris, that relay buzzing still makes me think low/intermittent voltage. I would take a real close again at the 25 amp fuse and each end of its wires. That is main power for the fuel pumps etc., and powers the coil for the Main Relay.
I would also go back to fuse 13 and increase contact tension by squeezing the 2 ends together with the fuse removed.
Another thing I've not seen myself, except in books, is a 3 or 4-pin connector under the glove box, near the FI ECU. It will have these wires:
• Blue/Red, Key On Voltage thru fuse 7 to Fuel Relay coil
• Yellow/Red, Fuel Relay Output to Fuse 5 Input (to both pumps at that point)
• Red, for A/C idle speed control (irrelevant here, mentioned only for ID purposes)
Let us know if you find it, and do what you can to ensure good contact there.
The ignition primary wiring is also a suspect area in that vintage (as well as engine harness insulation). For the no-start, try a Temporary wire jumper from battery positive to Coil terminal #15 (Brown wires I think). If that helps, you can leave it in place for now, just unhook it when not driving—and also check the wiring by the right hood hinge area. I'm not sure if there is a ballast resistor there, or just the connections where it was removed. But it is in the coil primary path and has caused problems for others.
Failure to start with pumps running, makes ignition more suspect. Have you pulled a plug wire, installed one of your old plugs (properly gapped) on the wire, with plug case contacting ground, and checked for spark when cranking?
That's all I can think of for now,
Bruce
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
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Thanks Bruce.
I found my problem. I had the tightened bolt which fastens the cable, which runs from the + terminal post to the 25 amp, at the battery terminal. But I hadn't really tighened it hard. I did that and now it runs fine. I only realized that when I was checking voltage from the + terminal to the 25 amp fuse, and it seemed very low. How embarassing!
Thanks for all your help, and my apologies about the wild goose chase.
Chris
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a similar thing happened to my good old '83. it was idling funny for a while then it stopped at a light. couldn't get it to start again. turned out to be a bad AMM - at least that's what i was told by my mechanic who has always been reliable.
this happened before i knew anything about volvos.
anyway, my '83 is gone now but since i paid $400+ for the darn AMM and used it for only a few months, i still have the AMM. the '83-'84 AMM is much more expensive than the newer ones. if you need one maybe we can work out a deal.
adam
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Make sure you have no air leaks. Make sure you tightened everything back up securely. I don't think you can make a visual on the AMM to see if it works or not. I'd get into your throttle body(intake) with carb cleaner and open up the butterfly with a liberal dose. I passed emissions once by removing the air filter. Good luck, Jeff
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Sorry but this won't really help your situation at all. I've found that the red section of the fuel gauge still gives me a 1/3 of a tank. For the first three months I owned the car I would fill up when I hit the beginning of the red, and every time is was right at 10~11 gallons. 16 gallon tank.
Cheers,
Justin
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'86 245, 180K
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Do you have a second, smaller red wire that comes off the positive terminal of the battery and goes to the 25 amp fuse by the driver's strut tower? Did you accidentally leave that off when you reinstalled the battery. I once knew a guy who did that and spent a very long time trying to figure out why his 240 wouldn't start. That guy looked a lot like me.
If that's not it, check that fuse.
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Andy in St. Paul, '91 745 Regina 198K mi, '89 244 142K, '87 245 RIP
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You didn't unplug or plug in the AMM with the car running did you? peolple say that is bad. AMMs usually allow the car to run, at least briefly, even when they are bad. It should run poorly (limp home) with the AMM disconnected.
The car will run quite well without the O2 sensor plugged in, so an issue with that isn't causing your no start.
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Andy in St. Paul, '91 745 Regina 198K mi, '89 244 142K, '87 245 RIP
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