posted by
someone claiming to be Roj
on
Fri Oct 22 12:59 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Hey fellow Volvo owners,
I have been looking at all the different snow tires I can get for my '81 244 (I'm going to get 4 new winter tires and put them on dedicated rims) and I've decided on the tires I want to get based on their characteristics, my driving habits, the typical winter climate and driving conditions where I live, etc., etc. Now that I got that far, I'm in a bit of a quandry over what tire size to choose given that the tire I've selected only comes in 3 sizes which would fit a 240 with 15" rims.
205/60/15, 195/65/15 and 175/65/15.
I don't want the 205s because I don't want to go to a fatter tire for winter tires. If anything I'd like to go taller and skinnier than the stock 195/60/15s but my choices are taller & same width or skinnier and almost the same diameter (just 0.2" less than stock). I wish they made 185/65/15s but they don't so my choice is between 175/65/15 or 195/65/15.
I will probably use Virgo rims (6" wide) since I have a few spares kicking around and would like to use them. The 175/65/15 is approved for 5" - 6" rims so could safely be used on the Virgos. 175/65s would have 7.4" section width on the Virgos whereas the O.E. 195/60 has a section width of 7.7" on the Virgos so curb protection is slightly reduced with the 175/65s vs the OE tire size, but not much. Tread width is, of course, 20 mm (0.8 inch) narrower on the 175s.
Winter driving conditions can be quite variable where I live (Calgary, AB, Canada) so can be dealing with deep snow or slush sometimes, icy and compact snow other times but probably have more bare and dry or bare & wet or slippery wet w/light snow than anything else. The 175 would probably kick ass in deeper snow and slush, the 195 would be better on dry and probably on bare & wet but I'm not sure which would actually do better on compact snow and icey conditions or wet slippery w/ light snow type conditions. I tend to be a "spirited" driver and my car has stiff sporty suspension so I like to take corners fairly hard when conditions permit but adjust my driving style according to the conditions. I'm 43 so don't drive like a crazy teenager anymore and have over 20 years of experience at driving 240s in winter conditions.
** I should also mention that I'm putting in a Detroit TrueTrac posi within the next few weeks. **
Biggest difference between the 175/65s and the 195/65s are load and speed ratings. The 175s are rated 84T (1102 lbs/tire) and the 195s are rated 91H (1356 lbs/tire). In contrast, the stock 195/60/15 would be rated at about 87 which is about 1190 lbs/tire. I'm not sure how significant the load or speed rating differences would be given that I seldom, if ever have more than 2 small-med sized adults in the car and maybe a 60 lb dog and I seldom have the car loaded down heavy. Speed rating diffs are not that important to me as these are winter tires so T is plenty fast enough and H is definately overkill. Price difference between the two tire sizes is not an issue. Just want to get the best tire for the car and conditions. I realize there are bound to be tradeoffs either way.
I know the 195/65/15 is commonly used on the 240 for winter tires and would probably be the safe choice but I can't help but wonder if the 175/65/15 might turn out to be an even better winter/snow tire. I'm very curious to know if anyone out there has run 175/65s winter tires on a 240 and what they thought of them. What were the pros & cons ?
Do any of you think the 175/65s would be a bad choice or a much worse choise than the 195/65s ? If so, why ?
Thanks,
Roj
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Don't know about skinnies on a 240 but I do on a 120 and they were awesome. Best winter handling I ever had! You will have fun with that, really the best part was the braking in snow, excellent traction and feel, cornering very postive too, nice controllable oversteer. One year I ran studded on the rears, that was truly a treat, don't know if that,s legal in Alberta, it is in quebec, Nov-April.
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I would like more info.
I'd like to know what tire you're considering that doesn't come in anything taller than a 65 series.
As others have pointed out, taller and skinnier is most often best in a winter tire. Tires with short aspect ratios make no sense for winter - snow tires don't handle for crap no matter what the aspect ratio.
Regardless, 175/65-15 is the wrong tire for a 240. The load rating is too light.
Sadly, there isn't much out there in a tall, skinny 15. Just isn't much call for it anymore.
If you insist on the 15's, I'd suggest the Nokian Hakka2 in a 195/65-15 - or you might try the new Nordman1 in that size.
But since tall/skinny is much more available in a 14, I'd really suggest you consider it.
The Hakka2 comes in a 175/80-14 with an 88Q load rating. A Canada-spec '81 244DL came with 175R14 stock, so the size is almost dead on.
Stud those 2s, and you'll be unstoppable.
--
'73 142, '75 242, '75 245, '80 245, '83 244, '86 244, '87 745T, 92 244 (for sale)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Roj
on
Fri Oct 22 20:35 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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It is the Dunlop Sport M3 which is a very highly rated winter performance tire. See the customer ratings at:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=W&VT=C
It supercedes the Sport M2 which was also a very highly rated tire.
That is the tire I will buy, I just need to figure out what size is best of the ones available. tirerack.com may not list all available sizes in the M3. www.tiretrends.com does, however.
I suspect there is lots of safety/overkill built into the selection of oem tire sizes with respect to load ratings so I don't think it will be a problem going to a tire with a 7% lower load rating than the OEM tire size. The car weighs what, 3000 lbs or thereaouts ? Load rating of the 175/65s are 1100 each makes 4400 lbs. Tire load rating numbers are probably conservative too so not that worried about it. Just curious to know if anyone else has ever run winter tires of that size and how they worked in various conditions.
Thanks,
Roj
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Just my two cents... Had Conti Contacts 185/70 14's on a 240 Wagon in Maine and New Hapshire winters, and it plowed through amazingly bad conditions. At 0 degrees thetires were so sticky they would squeak on frozen surfaces. Some type of compound that gets stickier when colder. The dry road driving was a blast since the tires had limits in warm weather that were fun to exploit at mere mortal speeds. They would break away with such control on dry roads, that you could do the best interstate entrance ramps in a controlled 4 wheel slide. Ah that was fun!
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Hi. Re: "...I should also mention that I'm putting in a Detroit TrueTrac posi within the next few weeks...."
Are you really sure you want that? People are always raving about limited slip and locking diffs, and while they're great for the track, or even doing stunts on the street, in really slippery conditions (e.g., ice) there is a noteworthy downside!
I know that you know a lot about traction in snow, because of your wise preference for tall, skinny tires -- it's the right choice in snow, a "secret" that a lot of folks down here in the U.S. really don't appreciate. I use 185-14's (without the aspect ratio, a tire defaults to a .81 aspect ratio), and have happily used 175-14's in the past. I wouldn't go to any 65 or 60 series in the winter.
But also consider this:
When tires spin, they loose what I'll call lateral traction -- the ability to slide sideways. Now let's say you're trying to go up a mild hill in your RWD Volvo, and you've applied a little too much throttle ... oops,....
First consider the usual open differential: the rear tire with the least traction will start spinning, of course, but the other tire doesn't spin and holds the rear of the car in place on the road. You may not get up the hill (unless you've got good studded tires, like my studded, Nokian Hakka-1's), but your car isn't fishtailing wildly either, and is staying straight ahead.
Next, consider your intended locked differential: both rear tires start spinning, and since neither tire exerts lateral traction, the rear of your car is fishtailing, and your steering to control wild oscillations (side to side) from winding up spinning you around.
Give this some thought. And in any case, enjoy the winter.
Ken
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this is a small price tp pay for not getting stuck in snowbankswith on euseless wheel spinning.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Roj
on
Fri Oct 22 13:44 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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The TrueTrac isn't a locker, it's a gear type limited slip and considered too mild for use by most 4x4 enthusiasts who prefer either clutch type or true lockers.
When it comes to LSDs, the Detroit TrueTrac is considered the Cadillac, providing almost seamless transfer of power from one side or the other. They are supposed to be much better than conventional clutch type LSDs for light duty passenger car applications.
I know the LSD will alter the handling characteristics of my car somewhat and may take some getting used to but I definately want to give it a try. If I don't like it I can always go back to an open diff but most people who have the TrueTracs really like 'em.
So did you find the 175 tire ok on your 240 for winter ? How did they compare to 185s or 195s in most conditions. Better in some, not in others ?
Roj
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"The TrueTrac isn't a locker, it's a gear type limited slip"
is it the torsen-type ATB diff similar to the ones that quaife supplies for a lot of manufacturers?
With an ATB diff, you'll have a torque split of usually 70-30 between both drive wheels. With this you'll have more control and still have the advantages of an open diff.
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You will like the TrueTrac. I think it handles much better than the Volvo clutch type LSD which I previously had in my 745T.
--
john
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