Hi all,

I'm elbow deep in a total re-wire of my 1957 444. It was converted at some point in its life to 12V, probably at the same time that the B16 was replaced with a B18. So far (knock on wood) the wiring project has gone well: all old wire out, all new wire cut to approximate length and sheathed. I'll be installing relays for the headlights, starter etc. as well as re-locating a new fuse block (with 4 spare circuits for extra goodies) to the driver's kick panel to keep everything out of the elements.

Yesterday I encountered my first dilemma and am hoping that someone out there can help me out. My turn signal switch has only 4 terminals whereas the original 444 switches had 6. I'm assuming that the switch was replaced at some point as well. A 4-terminal switch would be fine IF I had 544 2-bulb taillight housings. With only 1 element of the single bulb in the 444 taillights to perform 2 functions (brake and turn...parking lights use the smaller 5-watt element of the bulb), the original wiper switch was responsible for both turn signal activation and brake light cancellation. When the turn signal arm is applied, say for a left hand turn, when the brakes are also applied, the switch cancelled the left brake light circuit and switched to accept the voltage from the flasher relay thus flashing the element at the left tailight. I hope this is making sense.

The crux of my question is this: without replacing the original 444 tailights and (preferably) without spending A BUNCH of money locating a new/used 444 wiper switch, how should I wire this circuit? I need (obviously) brake lights, and turn signals to one side of the bulb and park lights to the other. I could purchase an aftermarket switch from JC Whi*ney that has 7 terminals on it. It looks pretty clunky though and I'd like to keep a clean 444 interior. I could also get some kind of aftermarket turn signals, but again I'd like to keep the rear end looking relatively stock.

Any thoughts? Thanks for all replies!

Aiden
Boulder, CO

'57 444

To solve the problem I bought a "converter" designed for a small utility trailer rig. NAPA # 755-1539. It is well labeled and coded and is made to adapt utility trailers to today's fancy taillights. Current taillights have a bulb and circuit for everything. But those utility trailers (I call my 4x8 a "Manly Trailer") have just the single bulb with 2 filaments. Cost was under $20. I too am concerned with visibility and will be driving my 444 here in Buffalo all winter long. My 444 has only the European lights on the body and nothing on the fenders. I will be installing some large oval vertical single bulb sealed lights in the next week or so. I might choose "marker" lights which are smaller but this winter will have Big back lights.

Christopher

Hi Christopher,
This "converter" you talk about - I'm not quite sure of my understanding of your thread, but:

Does this converter convert the signals from the towing car's plug into a "simpler" one for the trailer?

Better to explain my question in another way:

I have severel cars and actually made a little collection af small vintage trailers too over the years.
In Denmark, Europe, the plug between a car and a trailer must at least have 7 connections - a single one for each turnsignal, brakelight and so.
My problem is then, on some of my very old trailers, ex. 1956, original taillights did not have brake and turn seperated and I would very much keep them that way!
So - what I need is somekind of converter that allows incoming turnsignal and brake - but gives brakelight on one side and let the turnsignal overrule on the other side.

Hope I make myself understanable!

If so, where can I find that converter?

Thanks a lot!

/Soren

Hi Soren,

Here's my understanding of it. Many European cars have a three-wire tail light: brake light, tail light and turnsignal. When wiring a trailer (or in my case a mismatched PV444) that has a single bulb tail light, you need something to cancel the brake light when the turn indicator is applied. Originally, in the PV444 this was done with switching circuits inside the turn signal switch. One can also use a trailer wiring converter.

You and I have the same problem. How to get the electricity in the 3-wire system to funnel into a 2-wire bulb. Here's the answer:

http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=E&Product_Code=31820&Category_Code=TB

I have no affiliation with this company. I don't even know if they are reputable. This is just an example of what we need to wire into our cars (or trailers) to solve our problem.
I found one locally for US$18. I'm sure they also have them in Denmark.

Good luck!
Hope this is clear.

Aiden
Boulder, Co
1957 PV444

Saw the website, yes that's what we are talking about. I have though thought of making the "thing" myself - I'm ok familiar with electronics so I guess it will be somewhere simple to create it myself..

See, the "one-way"-guards they sell in a set of 4 pieces - is just a simple electronic part - couldn't be more than arround $1-3 here in Denmark..

Thanks!
/Soren

Thanks a lot Aiden!
I'll have a look.. And yes -it's clear!

Btw - I'll get back to you regarding your email (you, right?) - it's just in my office - in these hours I'm at home..
Thanks!
/Soren

I'm in your boat! I bought a 1957 (really a '56) on ebay and dis-assembled it. It was original but with Vacuum wipers. I also have a 544 that I re-wired last year in anticipation of this conversion to a new body. To begin with, the 544 never stopped being on the road. Nice concept but also meaning any breaks in any component needed to be working the next day. So, alot of splices and double wires when something didn't work. My solution was a complete rewire beginning with a NAPA fuse box with "blade" fuses and I mounted it on the rear deck under the rear window. Then I made a plate to hold my switches (6)located under the radio and ran wires from the fuse box to the plate and to the component. I ran individual grounds too so I didn't need to deal with that issue. Really not too difficult when approached in a simple way. No relays, Just wires! Fuse for (coil) ignition, one for Driving lights one for High beams, another circuit for wipers and one for heater. Electric fuel pump and overdrive on the same circuit. Bring the power from the fuse box to the "on-off" swich at the plate, on to the place you want the power to go. Sure I need to time the wipers so they are off in the "down" position but with practice ...Plus I now have all new everything! All wires and switches are new. Switches are just on-off and from any hardware store. I.E. replaceable with very common items.
Below is a basic code

6 Brake Light White Black
24 Brake Light Power Black Black
9 Fan Ground Yellow Black
8 Fan Power Yellow White
25 Fuel Pump Blue
5 Gas Tank Sender White White
1 Head Lights Blue Green
3 Headlights Bright Blue Black
2 Headlights Ground Blue White
18 Heater Power Green Black
7 Ignition Yellow Green
17 Ignition Power Green White
26 OverDrive Green
13 Power From Starter Pink Dbl Green
14 Power From Starter Pink Dbl White
15 Power From Starter Pink Dbl Black
23 Radio Power Black White
19 Starter Button Red Green
22 Starter Button Power Black Green
4 Taillights Driving White Green
11 Turn Left Front Orange White
10 Turn Right Front Orange Green
16 Turnsignal Power Green Green
12 Turnsignals Ground Orange Black
20 Void Red White
21 Void Red Black

Once I was told that electrical work is just like plumbing. "no leaks"

Christopher

Look for a "flat 4 converter" at WalMart or a shop that sells towing supplies. It is normally used to go between the wiring harness of a separate brake light/turn signal car to a trailer that has combined brake/turn signal lights. I'm not positive, but I would think it would solve your problem. Mine is solid state and cost $12 in 2003.

Did your lights ever work correctly with the 4 pin switch?

Good luck,
Bob H.
'60 Saab 93, '64 544, '67 Morris Minor, '71 MGB

Thanks for the lead, Bob. I'll look for a "Flat-4" today.

I bought the car off Ebay and unfortunately it was completely misrepresented. When I received the car it had (amongst a myriad of other issues) no fuse block and a spaghetti nest of wiring behind the dash. None of the lights were working. This is the reason why I decided that it might be easier to redo the entire electrical system rather than to try and sort out the mess.

Take care,
Aiden

Damn.. I really can't be of much help here. A questionable 6v-12v conversion, lucas to who knows what...etc...etc. I'd be looking at teh inputs to the flasher unit, and the bulbs.

I really don't understand how them systems work... I reckon I'll learn soon enough.

Havn't seen you post here before.. you been around? Seems we're getting more folks in norther Colorado... I'm in Fort Collins, but I don't get out of town much.

-Matt
--
-Matt '70 145s, '65 1800s, '66 122s wagon, others inc. '53 XK120 FHC

I say you upgrade the system to work just like the later 12-volt setup. You would have to study a wiring diagram for quite a while, but you should be able to make it work. You will have to modify the sockets to accept a dual filament bulb, but I think you will be happier overall. Used switches are not at all impossible to find especially in bad cosmetic shape. And if the old turn switches are similar in design with the newer ones, you can replace the arm and the plastic bit on the end with new stuff (so from the outside it will look new). I think IPD sells reproduction turn signal arm ends now.