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This is a repost; no answers the first time round.
When parked overnight, or for an extended period, on startup the AW70 transmission does not engage in gear for perhaps up to 10 seconds. If I sit and allow the car to idle for that period the transmission will then engage, as though it needs to build pressure first. Is this normal for these automatics? I have changed the ATF, and cleaned the filter screen and there has been no improvement. Once I am underway, and for the rest of the drive, the transmission shifts smoothly and precisely. Any insight on this issue would be appreciated.
JD
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You did refill with ATF type "F"? Other than that, it mimics mine when it's low on fluid. Does it have the correct dip stick? jp
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Hi. If you're looking at a 1984 owner's manual and believe you should use Type F, I know why your confused (misled?).
At first glance, under Transmission Oil, on pg 60, it says to use "Type F or G (FLM)". However, that page 60 is for the manual transmission!
If you look over on the right, on page 61, that's for automatic transmission, and there is says, on the first line, for BW55 use Type G (FLM), and for AW71 use Dexron IID. [There's no mention of AW70, so I assume that's a misprint and should have been AW70/71].
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See my post below -- Type F ended in 1983; Dexron is used from '84 onward.
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Most commonly, it's the fluid level -- you might not be checking it properly.
Or, the screen might be clogged -- but you've cleaned that already, so I'll stick with the first.
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It absolutely feels like it is low on fluid, but afterchecking several times I can safely say the fluid level is up. Fluid was checked as per owners manual and differs in no way from any other auto tranny in that respect. It just seems to lag when cold, as though it needs to build pressure. Does teh converter drain into the sump when sitting? Is there a checkvalve that is supposed to prevent that?
JD
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The torque converter doesn't usually drain out, which is why a mere change in sump fluid doesn't refresh the torque converter's fluid -- you have to pump it through, with a hose (like the one IPD sells, or something similar).
But when you have the first-thing-in-the-morning lag, is usually means that fluid isn't yet circulating through all the passages of the transmission, energizing the clutches (or what-have-you). That's why I thought, low fluid level.
Forgive me for asking, but did you take notice of the different temperature scales on either side of the dipstick (i.e., "hot" vs. "cold"). It take a LONG time to get the fluid to heat up to be appropriate for the "hot" scale -- usually a half-hour or more of fast driving, in fall or winter; less than that, you should be using the "cold" side of the scale.
Another way (some here will disagree, but I've found it to work consistently with "engine running" measurements):
After leaving the car overnight, you can check the fluid "cold" without the engine having been started -- pull the dipstick and reinsert (this pull out and reinsert is important), and then see if the fluid is up to a rectangular notch higher up on the dipstick, above the plastic "scales" at the end of the dipstick. It should be there, within that rectangular notch, when the fluid is "overnight" cold, and without the engine having been started. But if you start the engine, even briefly, don't use this method until the following morning.
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Yes, the trans fluid was checked in both conditions (cold, then hot after a 30 mile run). Checked in Park idling, after slowly moving the selector through all gears.
Type F fluid, proper level. The dip stick is the correct one for the car.
Maybe I am just paranoid. But that 5 to 10 second delay troubles me. Funny thing is, it is inconsistent. I got in the car this morning and it engaged right away. Thsi morning's conditions (time idle, temperature etc) were no differnt than other mornings.
One clue, that MAY have something to do with it is that I park on a 5 to 10 degree slope. However, this morning's start was also in that same aspect.
I think I will try a bit of tranny Conditioner. Any thoughts or recommendations?
JD
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Hi.
I was prompted to recheck my 1984 owners manual, and discovered something else to mention. In addition to my just earlier remarks about you using the wrong fluid, my manual (again, pg 61) also says, "Wait 2 minutes before checking oil level" -- that's in addition to moving the gear selector through all positions, and leaving it to idle in Park. I never noticed the "wait 2 minutes" instruction until now. Ha.
Good luck.
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I like the Lucas product. http://www.anythingtruck.com/performance_lucas.html jp
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Hi. You gave me what might be a probably answer!
re: "...Type F fluid, proper level...."
I'm afraid that, if you have an '84 (that's what's indicated in the title), you are supposed to use Dexron. Type F is only used up through 1983. From '84 onward, it's Dexron! Forget the differences between Dexron, Dexron II, etc. -- they're just a series of generations of improvements -- just use the latest Dexron.
By the way, I'm a former owner of an '83, and currently still own an '84 -- so I have personal information (owner's manuals, etc.) on this transition period.
I suggest you change the fluid -- all of it. That includes the sump, and also the fluid in the torque converter! For the latter, use the "hose" flushing method (check with IPD, as they have a handy hose for this).
I don't know if this will definitely fix the problem, but I know for sure that you have the wrong fluid in there right now (if you have an '84).
Hope this helps.
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The orginal post mentioned an AW70 transmission in an 84. I'm hard pressed to understand why Asian Warner & Volvo would call for Type "F" fluid in an 83 AW70 and Dexron in an 84 AW70. With the same model number, they shoud be the same transmission using the same fluid. Your two owner's manuals from the 83 and 84 calling for the swtich in types was compelling enough for me to call Autozone and ask what their books showed. Same thing, type F for an 83 and Dexron for 84. I dug deeper since all the published information says these two fluids are not interchangeable http://www.islandoilsupply.com/texaco/havolfluid.htm. The following Sinclair Oil site say Type F should be used in Volvo's 1977 through 1985 http://www.sinclairoil.com/product_data_sheets/atf%20type%20F.pdf. I purchased my 83 new and have run type F for 296,000 miles. Still the original transmission; never been touched except to change the fluid and filter. jp
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re: "...I'm hard pressed to understand why Asian Warner & Volvo would call for Type "F" fluid in an 83 AW70 and Dexron in an 84 AW70...."
Not being an engineeer, I wouldn't dream of answering "why" definitively. But I would speculate that perhaps, in the '84-on transmissions they were using new friction materials or pressures (springs in the valve body) to improve performance, shifting, what-have-you -- and that they decided that Dexron had more suitable characteristics for these revisions.
Certainly, a fluid change wouldn't justify a change in the transmission designation -- e.g., AW70/71 being renamed AW72/73. Simply noting the model year ought to be sufficient for a service department to choose the right fluid.
In any case, the change is without question -- I also have, in addition to the owners manuals, the "green" Volvo-published shop manuals as well -- these also corroborate the change over the '83-84 period.
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Your statement, "In any case, the change is without question" is in question. I checked three web sites for transmission rebuild kits and all three call for the same kit number for an AW70 for years 1977-85. Even though your Volvo shop manual calls for Dexron in an 84 AW70, I'd be skeptical. This wouldn't be the first time a manual was incorrect. On the other hand, I'm skeptical that type F is correct for an 83 AW70. I do see on the rebuild kit sites that an AW70L was introduced in 1983 and it uses a different rebuild kit than the AW70. I'm wondering if the 84 Volvos used the AW70L and that's the reason for the fluid change. Does your 84 run an AW70 or AW70L? I'd like to get to the bottom of this. jp
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Hi, again.
The question, 'Who do you trust more?", seems to be raised here. Therefore, ask yourself:
1) Don't you think that Volvo's own publications, both in the owner's manuals and in their shop manuals (not an outside publisher like Bentley, etc., but the 'Green' books actually meant to be used in Volvo dealerships' shops, would know better about which fluid to use.
2) And don't you think that, had an 'editorial mistake' been made, it would have been discovered and corrected (e.g., widespread recalls or updated versions, etc.)? After all, using the wrong fluid would certainly result, as you have concurred, in costly damage.
Moreover, I have often bought parts at a general parts store (NAPA, etc.) for various makes of cars, and too often found that the parts 'listed' weren't what they should be -- these "other sources" aren't as infallible as you seem to feel, especially in comparison to Volvo's own publications in dealing with their vehicles.
On a different note, I certainly do not have an "-L" (i.e., lockup torque converter) version of the AW transmission. I also have two '93 240's (the last year, as you know), and in addition to my understanding from many other posts on this very list, is that (as I recall) the "-L" versions were only offered in the 700 series -- the 240's were never given this version.
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Hey Ken: I real want to get to the bottom of this ATF deal. I've been doing some looking and see you have been convinced Dexron is correct for 1984 AW 70 transmissions at least since 12-15-03 (posting date). I learned from experience years ago that you can't alway believe what is in print. Do you know for sure the Volvo dealers didn't receive a correction notice (letter in the mail)? I'm sure most of the after market shop manuals and catalogs get their information from the offical Volvo shop manual. This is how errors perpetuate. I've checked more web sites and all the AW70 overhaul kits fit 1977-85. It doesn't pass the common sense test that the same parts would be used and yet different model years would use differnt fluid. If a transmission was replaced with a used one or remanufactured one, the wrong fluid could be used if it came from a differnt year. I sent Asian Warner-Europe an e-mail asking for the correct fluid for an AW70. I'll post if I hear back. jp
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Hi. I also just walked into my den and pulled a couple of manuals off the shelf....
One is the green (Volvo-published) service manual I mentioned. [in an earlier post, I also gave you the specific page from my '84 Owner's Manual.] In this service manual (it's one of about a dozen of these green/white books that I have, all in binders) called "Service Manual - Repairs and Maintenance, Section 1(17) [TP 30600/1], on page 31, on Transmissions, under "Fill Oil", it says,
- BW55: ATF type F or G
- AW70/AW71: Dexron II.
Another source is the Bentley manual, "Volvo 240 Service Manual", which is always cited and seems very highly regarded by many on this list. If you check the Automatic Transmission section, specifically page 435-2, on the bottom left of the page, there's a table indicating proper fluid types. It reads, very specifically, that BW55 and "AW70/71 (up to 1983)" [with "up to 1983" printed in bold] all get ATF Type F or Type G. Then on the next line, it says "AW70/71 (1984 and later)" [again with "1984 and later" printed in bold] gets ATF Dexron IID or Dexron IIE.
So, all the sources I've got here indicates that it's Type F up to 1983, and Dexron from 1984 onward.
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Hi, again.
One comment -- I bought the shop manuals directly from Volvo when I bought the car (the 1984 m.y.) around 1990. If the Dexron instruction was incorrect, Volvo had six years to insert a sticker, or a revision/update sheet, in their supplies of this publication but clearly didn't.
On the other hand, if in your pursuit of the truth (e.g., emailing AW) you do find something, I would definitely appreciate you sharing your findings on this list -- I'm sure MANY people, not only myself, would also be grateful. So I'll thank you in advance.
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No reply back from my e-mail to AW-Europe. I beginning to think that Volvo or AW decided between 1983-84 that Dexron worked the same or better than Type F and Dexron was continually evolving to a better fluid so they changed fluid types. Now that Ford owns Volvo, it might change back (ony joking). jp
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Sorry; My bad. The oil I changed was in fact Dexron II. A case of auto-suggestion brought on by an earlier response asking if I had used Type F.
So I am still stumped.
JD
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posted by
someone claiming to be Ken C
on
Mon Oct 4 00:16 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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re: "...The oil I changed was in fact Dexron II...."
I glad to hear this -- at least that's one problem you're not facing. But sorry I haven't come up with anything else.
Good luck.
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