posted by
someone claiming to be Chris
on
Sat Oct 2 12:28 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Folks,
My vehicle is a '91 240 DL Sedan with automatic trans.
The first symptom was spontaneous shifting from 4th to 3rd on the freeway at speeds where it would normally be in 4th.
I checked the trans fluid level. It was *below* dipstick level.
I have had my vehicle [brick? ok cool :) ] religiously serviced and maintenanced for the past two years by the same indy since we moved, and for eight years by a different indy at our previous location. It would appear that the new place hasn't been checking the fluid levels like the old place did, and I assumed (!) that's what every responsible place did as a part of the maintenance routine. It looks like the fluid just slowly leaked out. I see no evidence of sudden seal rupture.
(I am having a serious crisis of confidence in the shop over this, but I don't if I should expect them to step up and handle this, or if it's just tough luck.)
Immediately I had them fill the fluid to (I hope) the proper level.
Now it won't shift from 3rd to 4th. I pushed up the speed briefly on a test drive to 85-90 and only once it briefly shifted to 4th and immediately back. Now it won't at all.
Does this mean that the damage for sure internal to the trans itself, or could it still be the solenoid, which would be a cheap and reasonable fix?
What are my options if it is in the trans itself?
I read some of the other posts and one made me wonder if I would get this symptom if there was now too much fluid in the trans. Is that possible?
The car seems to travel fine in 3rd at 60, but with higher engine rpm of course. I'm thinking this rules out longer distances, (we occasionally need to make a 200mi jaunt), but probably not short around town stuff. What distance limit must I restrict myself to?
I realize this is a whole *bunch* of questions in one shot, and I thank in advance any kind souls who reply.
Chris
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I agree with HearToTemptYou, bad OD relay or kickdown cable either binding or caught on something. Usually they bind up inside the tranny, but my cable was too loose and got caught on a nut near the throttle body and the car wouldn't upshift correctly and refused to go into OD at all...
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Jim 90 244DL 243K
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Bet you it's your OD relay.
It's located behind the dash, next to the glove box if I'm not mistaken. (If it's not there, forgive me, as I don't do much work on the later 240s.)
When you went 90 mph, I'm guessing that the vibrations from the road were enough to make the relay trigger for a moment, then fail again.
As for driving around in 3rd gear for extended distances... Don't worry too much about it. In fact, automatic 240s made from '75-'81 didn't even have OD. They were just 3 speeds. The only real side effect is that you will use more gas then you would if the OD was working properly. I probably wouldn't go 90 mph for any extended distances however...
These transmissions are pretty tough... being a bit short on tranny fluid won't kill them in the way you've described... Not to say that it isn't important to keep the level correct.
Try hitting the OD lock out button on your shifter and see if the OD off light comes on (I think it looks like a yellow Arrow pointing up on the dash). If nothing happens, I'll bet it's that relay.
Pull the relay out, and either re-solder the internals, or replace it with another relay out of an auto 240 in the junk yard.
Again, I apologize if I am incorrect about where your OD relay is located. If I'm wrong, someone will be along shortly to correct me!
Good luck!
--
If you listen to the radio in Portland, OR, you may know me as "Portland's Favorite Soul Brother!"
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posted by
someone claiming to be Chris
on
Sat Oct 2 15:38 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Thanks HearToTemptYou,
The yellow arrow light does come on, but to no effect. Still, it's very encouraging to read your post as it allays (I hope) my main concern which would be tranny surgery or a tranny transplant.
I imagine it's a slow time for the forum, being Sat. nite, so I'll check back in 24-48 to see if any others have thoughts to add.
One of the things the mechanic said that I didn't think to put in the first post is "once they start to slip, that's pretty much it." Perhaps someone in the forum is a rebuilder, or at least has been inside and knows what's actually happening, and can describe it some.
Again, thanks,
Chris
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BTW - Don't worry about what the mechanic said, if a tranny starts to slip it usually does it in all gears all the time and is felt more as a lag not a drop from OD to 3rd.
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Jim 90 244DL 243K
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Well, your 4th gear is an Overdrive. It's electronically activated automatically.
If the relay (which is that thing behind the glove box) fails, the OD won't get the electricity it needs to operate, and it will drop you out of OD.
Try this. Next time you are on the freeway (with a relatively light throttle, going about 55 mph) Try giving the dash a good whack right over the glove box. Try it a couple of times. (Might want to have a passenger do it so you can pay attention to driving.) If it pops back into OD, even for just a moment, that means the relay is your problem for sure.
Another thing to check that came to mind would be your kick down cable.
Here are some pictures that will help you find the kick down cable on your car. I took these pictures from my 1977 244 DL, (because at the time it was the only automatic 240 I had). So keep in mind that these pictures won't look exactly like your engine will, but it will be the same general lay out:
Follow the red arrows:
The kick down cable is what tells the transmission to downshift when you put heavy pressure on the transmission. That's the thing that basically makes the car kinda "jump" when you floor it. If cable is binding up, it can cause the car to think you are flooring it all the time, and it might take really high revs before the car will shift as it is suppose to. See if you can move that cable freely.
How many miles are on the car?
--
If you listen to the radio in Portland, OR, you may know me as "Portland's Favorite Soul Brother!"
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posted by
someone claiming to be Chris
on
Sun Oct 3 17:47 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Thanks to All for the input.
I find it noteworthy that *no one* seemed to think it was internal to the trans even though the fluid level was allowed to get quite low. That's good news, very reassuring, and will be useful when I take it in. At least I won't go for an expensive trans job without a second opinion now that all of you are pretty much unanimous that it has something to do with the OD cable or relay.
I did try HearToTemptYou's 'whack-on-the-dash-at-fifty-five' and nothing happened, and the little yellow arrow light from the gearshift button does come on, so if any of that matters, I did want to tell you I tried it.
Any further thoughts are welcome, since I won't take it in 'till later this week. Just before, I'll check back on this thread.
Otherwise, I wish you all many safe miles, and again thanks
Chris
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