Hi, all.
I'm setting up a '93 240 to give to my daughter -- for a safe handling (think active safety) car. She's an experienced driver, and drives fast, and I want her to have a well-prepared highway car. However, she also drives around a city, so also think potholes and frost heaves.
I've got all the improved brakes, bigger wheels/tires, and other stuff settled, but now I'm addressing suspension:

I'm thinking of adding IPD's antisway bars -- first question, though: I've heard that the '93 already got stiffer bars than any previous model year. So is the IPD 25/22 mm set going to be a substantial improvement over the '93's larger stock bars?

Second question: I noticed that in addition to their regular 25/22 mm version (CU6K5012), they've got another one that's 25/25 mm (CU6K5014). This latter is for "GT's and lowered", but I'm thinking, why NOT for a regular 240, too, as the extra stiff rear antisway bar might be good.
Of course, I know about oversteer, so maybe 25 mm rears might be too much rear stiffness. Remember mostly, I'm looking for safe handling, not tail-hanging-out track racing.

So for this post, what have been your impressions, especially (though not necessarily exclusively) for '93 240's, and including anyone who's put the 25/25 kit on a 240 that was NOT a "GT or lowered".

Thanks, all.

(haven't read all the other posts yet....)

I have an ipd 25mm front bar coupled with a 22mm rear bar available. Came from a 1990 model.

send me email, if interested.

Took my 1986 244 DL with turbo bars to the Pocono North Course a couple of Saturdays ago with the Bayshore Corvair Club. People "didn't believe a Volvo could handle like that!"

No oversteer whatsoever. Was able to stab the throttle at of before the apexes.

--
'Can't understand why people abort Volvos, either' '89 740 Turbo, 122,000 miles

Take the car to a good alignment shop and have them check out steering and suspension. Loose/worn wheel bearings, bushings, inner/outer tie rods, ball joints will all make the car handle imprecisely, thus negating all the effort and $$ on shocks, bars and braces.

My daughter's 83: Turbo sway bars (23/21mm), PBR Deluxe brake pads and gen Volvo rotors, Bridgestone LS-T 195-70/14 tires on stock steel wheels. Power bled the hydraulic system with ATE "Blue" fluid (DOT-4).

I modified the headlighting system so inner high beam units are run at half-power as daytime running lights anytime ignition is on, handbrake off and low beams off. Outer headlights are Hella E-code with Silverstar bulbs. Installed a high-mount stoplamp in the rear window as on 85+ Volvos, and 30W halogen bulbs in the brakelights. New (ie: clear) windshield, supplied and installed by the shop the Volvo dealer uses.

The rest is up to her.
--
Bob (son's 81-244GL B21F, dtr's 83-244DL B23F, 'my' 94-944 B230FD; plus grocery-getter Dodge minivan, hobbycar MGB, and numerous old motorcycles)

re: "...Power bled the hydraulic system with ATE "Blue" fluid (DOT-4)...."

I do that regularly (used to use that small kit, with the bottle hooked up to a spare tire; now, I use that new thing, a big jug with a pressure gauge and a hefty hand pump in the cap, MUCH better! Both sold by IPD).

I regularly use "Castrol GT LMA" ("Low Moisture Absorbance", I think it means), though. I run a whole quart through each ABS car, and almost two quarts through each non-ABS car, each year in the springtime. [the non-ABS cars have twice as many bleeders, and with that new pressure bleeder, I let every one bleed for a couple of minutes, just be sure.]

You and I think alike:

re: "...Take the car to a good alignment shop and have them check out steering and suspension...."
That's a given!

re: "...PBR Deluxe brake pads and gen Volvo rotors, Bridgestone LS-T 195-70/14 tires on stock steel wheels. Power bled the hydraulic system with ATE "Blue" fluid (DOT-4)...."
I, too, like PBR Deluxe pads, but I'm putting a different rotor on -- a slotted rotor (but not ATE's PowerDisk, too prone to warping) that I've been using on all my cars for years. This will also get a Cadmium plating -- I do this on my cars (e.g., my '75 164) that are used infrequently (used on weekends in good weather only), as it prevents the rusting film that otherwise builds up in wet weather, since my daughter will similarly only be using the car on weekends (she can't drive to work in Boston).

re: "...I modified the headlighting system so inner high beam units are run at half-power as daytime running lights anytime ignition is on, handbrake off and low beams off...."
Neat. I've been routinely using Hamsar modules (made in Canada), and they work as yours (including half power, etc.), but how do you also incorporate the "handbrake" factor? I never thought of that -- do you tie into the handbrake "on" light?

re: "...Outer headlights are Hella E-code with Silverstar bulbs...."
On all my pre-'86 cars, I've always used Cibies (personal preference, over Hella). But because it's a '93, I'm planning to remove the notoriously lousy plastic lights and replace the whole thing with that "truck" substitute that allows me to install Cibie (of course :-) 7" round headlights -- with higher wattage H4's, of course.
On my wife's '93, I went to the considerable expense of importing European lamps to replace these plastic ones, and they were a disappointment, quality-wise (mounting bolts detaching, lens adjusters falling out) -- I don't want my daughter to face these headaches alone (she's 250 miles from me), so doing the "truck" conversion will result in a less expensive, and much more robust solution, not to mention that I feel that the Cibie 7" round lights (which I've got on my 164) are still noticably better lighting than the European lamps on my wife's '93.
Also, it's much easier and cheaper for her to replace the Cibie housing, should the lens be broken by a stone, than European headlights which would require waiting while a replacement is shipped from overseas.

re: "...Installed ... 30W halogen bulbs in the brakelights....."
I've been reluctant to do that -- I've been concerned that the extra heat will melt the usually fragile plastic lens, causing it to distort or even drop out (like the notorious backup light lens). Have you seen any effects of this?

email me and I'll respond with an Excel-based diagram that shows how I did the handbrake lights-off trick. Uses a printed circuit board "sugar cube" NC relay to trigger the 30A Bosch DRL relay. Good for when you park for a while with engine running.

Cad-plated rotors? I guess you've done the homework but I'd be wary of anything that changes the coefficient of friction in the pad/rotor system!
Volvo-savvy mechs tell me that 240 warpage is typically only a problem with vented rotors - both our 240's have solid. Yeah, the power bleeder is a handy rig and IPD's price is only a $ or three above the mfgr's website list.

Agree that Cibie in general are superior to Hella (esp. the 7-in round units), but for the 4x6 hi-lo units in a 4-lamp system, there's little diff...except in cost and availability. I've tried higher wattage bulbs, but observed no real-world advantage over the 60/55 std H4, and it stresses the wiring more. The Silverstars (60/55) gave more visible improvement.

Right, stronger brake lights are a heat concern, and I did partially distort the sockets, but have advised daughter to use the handbrake on slopes, not sit through an entire long red light on the brake pedal.




--
Bob (son's 81-244GL B21F, dtr's 83-244DL B23F, 'my' 94-944 B230FD; plus grocery-getter Dodge minivan, hobbycar MGB, and numerous old motorcycles)

Hi, guys. A big thanks....

First, I am really glad I asked you guys about the 25/25 bars -- I guess I was right worrying about oversteer, and you guys happily confirmed it, saving me from making a mistake.
But given that the '93 already has beefier bars, I am going to go with the IPD 25/22's (which should be OK regarding preserving understeer) instead of factory turbo's suggested. [I've routinely used factory turbo bars in all my past Volvos, and I know that they are an improvement over the standard DL bars; but I want an improvement over what the '93 has, and turbo bars may not be enough of a jump.]

As for the several suggestions about tires, rest assured that I have always agreed with that. I've always used bigger and better tires, routinely and the first upgrade, as long as I've been driving (since 1965, actually :-), and Volvos since 1973 -- heck, I started using radial tires in 1969, when most folks were still waving at me that "my tires were going flat". For the past decade, V-rated have been my only choice, as even with the faster wear, I figure it's still cheaper to avoid a crash! In this case, I'm already looking for a set of 15x6" wheels to mount her set of new tires.

Thanks a million to you all.

Ignore this junk.
TIRES!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!
Car +whatever garbage <=TIRES.

Pfft.

Of course you need good tires.

However, even with okay tires you're not going to come close to the limits of the tires without tweaking the suspension.

IMO, beefier bars and better shocks are a must. There's just too much slop in the stock suspension setup (especially with the 700s).

--
alex

I disagree, though it seems you have some pretty set ideas that perhaps no amount of logic will convince. True, tires (and inflation) are important to handling, but even putting on a set of Turbo sway bars is a major, dramatic improvement in handling, given the same set of tires. The IPD sway bars will be even better, though I think that the price will not get you as much improvement on the dollar as a set of turbo sways from the junkyard. Of course, sport struts will improve things also, but then you're getting into an area that is largely a matter of personal taste and dependant upon driving conditions. Not so with sway bar upgrades. Anybody would be happy with the upgrades for any kind of driving.

After sway bars, the different braces will help incrementally. But not as dramatically as the sway bars.

Sorry to disagree but it's a no brainer: no set of performance tires, compared to good quality standard touring tires, will give you nearly as much improvement in handling as the IPD or turbo sway bars.

I just put Turbo bars on my 81. The front one is 23mm. The local Volvo dealer had exactly what I needed to install new Volvo front sway bar bushings.

#1273184 bushing, need two.
#1330185 clamp, need two.
#1359391 brace, need two.
#1205991 end-link bushing, need four.

Total price for the ten pieces, not including the bars, was #46.66.

These are standard genuine Volvo rubber bushings with new-style clamps. It all went together nicely. No problems so far.

The car handles great in my opinion. While I was in there, I did all the control arm bushings (The rears were shot.), Sachs Advantage struts and shocks, strut bearings which were noisy, and front brake pads which were almost gone. All in all, the improvement in handling is quite noticeable. It's not too harsh.
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Thanks everyone for all the information and advice, Doug C. 81 242 Brick Off Blocks, stock, B21F (non-Turbo), M46; 86 244, B230, 140k , auto.
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Thanks everyone for all the information and advice, Doug C. 81 242 Brick Off Blocks, stock, B21F (non-Turbo), M46; 86 244, B230, 140k , auto.

For a novice driver the previous posters are right on, a little body roll will keep her from overtaxing the tires. If the car handles like it's on rails the rubber becomes the weak spot and she could get into trouble that way.

I've tried just about every possible combination of equipment out there, for a daily driver for a young person I'd go with 15' wheels with 195 to 205/60 good quality tires, Bilstein HD shocks, 25/22mm IPD or the 23/21mm turbo bars, and strut to firewall braces (not totally necessary). By the time you get to cross tower and lower braces the improvements are not as great and the return on your $$$ is minimal unless you're after the last little bit of feel.

If you're interested there is a page on my site in the quick index that I did a couple of years ago detailing the changes in handling on a bunch of upgrades I did on my 200s and 700s, it is not up to date and I've tried a bunch since then but it should give you some ideas. You want to keep the Volvo designed understeer, it is a safety factor, if she goes into a corner too fast the nose will slide out first ensuring the crumple zones do their thing.
--
Dave Shannon
Spring Valley, California
'84-245T 190K+
'88-240 190K+
'65 1800S ????K
'73 1800ES 117K
'92 745Ti 150K
Jeep Wrangler Sahara 10K
my pages

Hello,

In my 245 I have the 25/22 set up plus a set of OEM GT strut to firewall braces. That, coupled with a fresh set of rear bushings (poly on the torque rods) and an LSD, results in superb, predictable handling qualities dry, wet or in snow.


--
Happy Bricking!!! - Richard - '87 245 DL , '82 242 GLT - Half a million km between them!!!

Like Stoney said, it would be a great improvement and cheaper to get some Turbo bars from a junkyard or Ebay. The most common setup would be to have 23mm front and 21 mm rear. It would be somewhat uncommon to find the 23mm rear bar. And you would probably want the 23/21 combo anyways, to keep a bit of understeer.

If you don't mind spending a little more money (I think it's worth it), the 25/22 mm IPD bars can't be beat by the turbo bars. Your daughter probably doesn't need the 25/25.

Greg
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~greg.wong/

I ahve had the 25/25 GT bar set on a 90 240 and can speak from experience. It will make the ass end reall twitchy and in the wet it can break away on you and you get to endure the "NASCAR" experience of "getting sideways". Not fun when you least expect it. Much better and cheaper is to locate a set of 240 Turbo bars (OEM) at 23/23mm F&R and get a set of 700 series 23mm bushings and mounts from Volvo. Turbo bars are in Ebay all the time and can be found in salvage yards easily. Cost including install is less than 1/3rd the cost of New IPD sway bars.
(If you really want a set of 25/25 bars I have 'em in the basement).

You can do install yourself with hydraulic jack and jackstands and maybe an electric impact wrench. Basic hand tools and 2 hrs total. Driveway level stuff.

I've been wanting to use a pair of 25/25 bars on my wagon. If those are still in your basement and available, please let me know!

Jason - jaboyer@ucsd.edu

They are there. Along with something like 9 virgos, front R Sport springs, Bucina Brace, Firewall braces.
Still trying to find the time to go thru everything and decide what to keep and what to sell.
Still looking for a 92/93 sedan Black/black or Silver/black AT/ABS with a sunroof...
Have a 92 240 Black/black AT/ABS no sunroof for swap...