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Hey all,
got a ticking from the engine. seems to come and go: sometimes I hear, other times I don't. Any ideas?
Sounds like a valve needs adjustment, but I thought the 234f had hydraulic lifters, thus negating the need for that?
Maybe a bum oil pump or leaking seal somewhere? It seems to be worse at idle, so maybe if I have a weak pump or some type of circulation problem, the oil pressure isn't enough for the hydraulic lifter?
Any ideas appreciated.... I'm gonna do the timing belt this weekend, so if I need a new oil pump, then's the time to do it while I'm in that neighborhood...
Thanks,
Fred
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I had a ticking noise from my 940 1993 turbo. Was less intense when hot initially and over a period of months became more pronounced. There was a slight leak at the exhaust manifold #1 cylinder. It was real pain to repair but I did mine a couple of months ago. The FAQs have a lot of good information on this and a few searches uncovered additional good information. From my experience, in addition to the faqs;
the manifold nuts needed a 1/2" socket; you will need all sorts of extensions and sizes; one or two of the nuts were only accessible using 1/4 drive attachments. Start using release fluid for at least a week before you start the job and apply it on a daily basis.
It will be much easier to remove the oil filter adapter , but you need sockets of a size that I did not have. 29mm deep and 32 mm I believe. I did the work without removing the adapter but it was difficult and my knuckles did not thank me for it.
andrew, toronto
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posted by
someone claiming to be 93-940 & 99-V70
on
Fri Apr 2 13:38 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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The B230f engine has what are called valve noise dampeners (I am not sure if this is the same as a B234 engine, if it is, then the following applies). They are essentially "Y" shaped rubber "bushings" that quiet the tapping sound of the valves. Sometimes the mechanics will actually remove them when doing a valve adjustment, and not replace them, as they do no other function than quiet the valve tapping. The engine is not harmed without them. As they get older, they start to resemble a "T", and thus to not stay in place and move up and down the shaft. At that point they work sometimes better than others. When you get the valves adjusted again, have these checked.
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The hydraulic valve lifters are almost certainly your problem. It's fairly common with older 16-valve B234F engines, especially those that haven't had the oil religiously changed. Grungy deposits in the lifters makes them take longer to fully pump up (fill with oil) at startup. The problem will be most noticeable at a cold startup and the ticking should go away within a minute or so. It's nothing serious, just go easy on the throttle until the ticking stops and the valves are fully pumped up.
Lots of good highway driving will help keep the lifters flushed out. If the car doesn't get used a lot then change oil on a time basis (like twice a year), rather than the recommended mileage basis (5,000 miles for the B234F). Keep the oil clean by doing regular oil changes using a top quality oil and a top quality filter -many long time brickheads consider Volvo/Mann filters as best and will using nothing else. Using an engine flusher with the next change may also help (personally that's where I'd start, but a lot of people don't like to go this route), just be sure to drain as much of the flushing agent as possible. An occasional treatment with an engine oil cleaner additive may also help, but I wouldn't run these on a regular basis -just stick to a quality oil. Permanently switching to a synthetic oil would probably make a huge difference as that tends to unstick just about everything in the engine over the first two oil changes.
--
Dave -not to be confused with a real expert, just goofing around at this
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OK.
Today, we had loud ticking at startup... ticked while I was in town (less than 30 MPH) got on a state highway, ticking stopped (60 MPH) came into another town, had to slow down again, and there was either a faint ticking or none at all.
The oil was changed religiously. The previous owners supplied me with a 3 ring binder with 100+ receipts of every dime they spent on the car. The oil was changed religiously with what the Volvo dealer called "Premium Mobil," but judging on the price they charged it was not synthetic, but maybe a blend...
The oil in there now has been in for 3200 miles and is still as clean as the day it went it. In fact, it's so clean, it's difficult to see on the dipstick... (But I know it's there!!!) :)
worried about lifter damage... We did have a fairly rapid temperature change when this began.... from 65 degrees to freezing within 24hours....
so, we'll have to do more research.
THanks, and any ideas appreciated.
Fred
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I'm glad to hear that oil maintenance does not seem to be a contributing factor to your problem. In fact, it sounds like that engine has been quite well maintained. The B234F is still well known for lifter ticking (it's even mentioned in the owner's manual) so I would not discount valve train issues. If you have a particularly high mileage engine then it could even be a worn camshaft. Based on what you're saying, though, the problem is just as likely elsewhere.
I assume we're talking about a ticking that directly changes with rpm. Is it a hard ticking (like a mechanical open/shut noise -valves, injectors, solenoids, relays) or a soft ticking (like a drive belt)? Perhaps a stethoscope (a rod held cupped to your ear will do) can help you isolate it. Listen at each injector, at the front and rear of the block, at the distributer cap, to the alternator and A/C compressor bodies, and most importantly around the edge of the timing belt cover. As I recall, there's also a solenoid up by the rad on the driver's side that can also make a ticking noise.
For obvious reasons for those who know the B234F, I would want to be absolutely certain that this ticking sound is not related to the timing belts, either a belt that is starting to break, an older style balance belt tensioner (see FAQ) that is starting to disintegerate, a failing idler/tensioner pulley bearing, or a failing oil pump pulley. Other than bearings, these all tend to fail rather suddenly under torque rather than gradually. Like you, I also understand a failing oil pump can result in a ticking sound, although you'd think they'd have designed an oil pressure sensor that would trigger before that happens. For a softer ticking noise, I would be more inclined to start by checking the drive belts for abnormalities like the tips of the belt splicing starting to separate.
There's certainly more possibilities I've overlooked or am not aware of so listen to the advice of others.
--
Dave -not to be confused with a real expert
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Right now I'm at 151,000 miles, with a timing belt change coming this weekend.
While I"m in there for the belt, I think i'll take a detour and pull off the valve cover and see if anything jumps out at me.
what I've got, after spending the day with it is a harsh click. From my days as a honda owner, it sounds like the old "Honda Click" from the top of the engine-- which Hondas are well known for and is an indication of a valve adjustment being needed. But since the GLE has hydraulic lifters, that rules a valve adjustment out... It doesn't sound like a "puff" like I might expect from an injector.
It comes and goes. Once the engine hits about 2900 RPM it shuts up, and sometimes doesn't return, sometimes does return, albeit more faintly.
One odd thing, when I had the defroster on today, the clicking almost seemed to come and go with the cycling of the A/C compressor.... I.E. when the compressor kicked on, it's like the sound dissapeared, then for the most part did not return... Maybe something with the AC Clutch when it is not engaged??? I don't have a stethoscope, but I can swear it comes from the top half of the engine, toward the back...
I'm gonna do more poking around though.
Thanks for the help, and keep the advice coming. I"m sure to eventually nail the sucker down.
Fred
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The A/C clutch isn't usually associate with a ticking sound, usually more of a scraping/grinding sound. What must be happening is that the engine is under load when the A/C compressor is on and that changes the conditions behind the ticking.
Injectors on the B234F (and all LH systems) use a pulsed electric solenoid and always tick a little. In some engines that ticking can become very noticeable and may well indeed be what you're hearing. Whether it's a sticking injector (not overly common) or a fuel pressure related issue (maybe more common) or something else that makes them louder I'm not sure, but I've seen complaints here.
There is one quick test that may help you decide if the injectors are causing the noise. You do this at the OBD diagnostic connector at the left front strut brace as follows:
Function 3 will exercise some of the engine outputs. To enter function 3: turn the A/C off (and out of defrost position); turn ignition on (car not running); put OBD selector wire in socket #2 (fuel system); press button three times (hold button 1-3 seconds each time when pressing); LED should start flashing. While it is flashing the OBD system will continually cycle through some tests:
a) You will hear the injectors ticking as they are being opened and closed. Put your hand on each one to feel the clicking. If any one sounds significantly different from the others then there may be a problem.
b) You will then hear the IAC (idle air control valve under the intake manifold) being fully opened and closed. Put your hand on it to feel a solid thunk at the end of travel.
c) If present, you will then hear the solenoid valve (at left front fender) ticking as it is being opened and closed.
d) If present, you will then hear the cold start valve ticking as it is being opened and closed.
Possibly one of these noises will be similar to what you're hearing. Let the tests repeat a number of times to exercise the system. Disconnect the OBD test lead and restart the engine. If one of these devices was involved with your pesky ticking sound then you may have exercised it enough to notice a change.
The stethosocope approach is definitely worth a try. If you don't have a mechanics stethoscope then a 2-3 foot long wood dowel or metal rod will suffice as long as you're careful. Just hold the end of the rod firmly into the base of your thumb and stick your thumb nail into your ear so that your ear is sealed. Rather than pressing the end of the rod into where you're listening, it's safest to lay the side of the tip against the area of interest. Both the clarity of the sound and the loudness can help lead you to the source area.
BTW If you're doing you own B234F timing belt change this weekend, you may find the detailed article in the 700/900 FAQ covering that topic helpful. There are a few noteworthy things, like how to get the tensioner in and out, always putting in a new oil pump pulley bolt and the proper torque and tension specs.
--
Dave -not to be confused with a real expert
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This sounds a lot like the exhaust manifold leak we had on our 95 940 Turbo. It would tick when cold, tick faster as you stepped on the gas, but once warmed up would virtually go away. The part was only a few dollars, but there was a lot of labor to replace.
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P.S. Sometimes seems to dissapear while in gear under load.
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