I was just reading over http://www.vclassics.com/hiperf1.htm and noticed this statement:

"I have dreamed for years of putting an 1800 on the street with similar performance characteristics. (Unfortunately, there is no way to get 200 HP out of a normally-aspirated B20 on street gas -- the race car runs at least 108 octane leaded racing gas with a CR of over 13.5:1. It gets between four and five miles per gallon.)"

Has the MPPE been dyno tested yet? How much power does it make and how is it running? Is it a good street motor?



-John,
I was wondering what size tires and wheels do you use on your street and/or race cars, what offsets? Also, in the archives i see that you were wanting to do a Jap DOHC swap, what engine were you specifically looking at? Just wondering, thanks

--
Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil 68 142 (74 b20, broken m40) sleeps... (check out my website, www.cardomain.com/id/kneedsacar

I'm not as sure as I was that you can't get 200 HP out of a street B20, considering
tuning advances and the overbores and strokers that are possible. The real emphasis of my statement, then and now, is that there is a lot of talk of big HP numbers, and then, whenever anyone puts there car on the dyno, they are dissapointed. I've beaten racing Volvos from all over the country a couple of times with a racecar engine that was tired and I knew wasn't making 200 HP. That makes me sceptical of a lot of claims, especially for street engines.

Phil's case is a little different as he has really put in an extraordinary amount of effort into "doing it right". Actually hoping that Phil does dyno the car at 200 HP, as that should show a lot of people that it can be done and that they don't have to do an engine swap to get great performance out of their NA old Volvo. That kind of thing should generate a lot of interest, and a lot of business in the long run. That's why I've even offered to pay for the dyno time to prove myself wrong.

In terms of engine swaps, I am generally against them as people think of them as a quick and easy way to more HP. And most swaps just don't work out well especially in an 1800. When I was thinking about swaps, I was thinking about 4 cylinder motors that did put out 200 HP. I believe the Toyota I was looking at was the 3SGE. Essentially it turned out that to do the swap right it was going to be too expensive. Adding a supercharger to a B18/B20 was much less expensive and less time consuming when all I had to do was buy a supercharger and make everything else out of blocks of aluminum. ( I could be forgetting all of the hours I spent on the mill and lathe. )

When I think about swaps, I still think about 4s - lately 3 liter 4s, supercharged.

As for wheels, 5 x 7, zero offset on the racecar with 225/50/15 - the largest allowed for vintage. Have done the same on a street 1800, but close clearance.

John
V-Performance.com

wow, that would be quite the 4 cyl. engine... Where did you get that idea? With what engine? How much of a bore and stroke? THAT IS CRAZY! =D I kinda like the idea, tell me more!

And then on the wheels and tires, about the offset, is that pretty bad bumpsteer wise? Or would it be is a better question considering it is a racecar? What about people saying it is hard on the bearings and what-not with that low of an offset? I never used to worry about the bearings and stuff from lower offsets, but the general thoughts on this board are that it isn't such a good idea. But then again, you have a racecar and i'm sure you planned on doing more maintenence than us anyway. My friend and I put +22 16x7.5 custom drilled Kosei K1s on his car, and the Tire Rack kept calling us and asking us if we were sure that that was the offset we wanted being as something in the thirties was recommended i think(stock is 15x6 with +40 if i remember correctly). But we knew it would work, and it does, and it looks awesome and feels awesome too. But is it wearing out the bearings more? Should we be worrying about that at all?
Thanks!
--
Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil 68 142 (74 b20, broken m40) sleeps... (check out my website, www.cardomain.com/id/kneedsacar

I must have missed a thread about this car/motor project. Sounds like an awfully fun and modified car. Can you give a quick run down on the details? MPPE?

Thanks

MPPE = Multi-Purpose Performance Engine, basically an attempt to see what can be done with a B20 the old-fashioned way -- normally aspirated, no injection, no computers. It's in my '67 1800S and has to be suitable for daily driving, by no means a dedicated race car motor. Cost was an object, there's more that could be done.

Design and many parts supplied by Mike Aaro of Unitek in Northern Sweden. Mike claims this should make ~165 HP *at the rear tires* and get better than stock economy on the highway. The latter part I can vouch for, over 30 mpg. The first part is controversial.

'74 B20 block overbored to 93mm = 2174cc. .040-over B21 Mahle pistons, "M" rods as used in '80-'83 B21/23, straightened, shot-peened, etc.

European "F" carb head extensively modified by Mike Aaro -- it's their Phase 4 head with a slightly different intake port shape added. 46mm intake valves, 38mm exhaust, bronze guides, double springs, alloy retainers.

Unitek Phase 4 cam, lightened steel gears, OE lifters and pushrods. OE rockers matched to 1.51 ratio (we went through a bunch of them).

Block was decked for extremely tight squish (.032" piston-head clearance), compression ratio 10.6:1 (has to run on 92-octane as a daily driver).

9 lb. aluminum flywheel from VPD, Borg & Beck clutch cover, SKF throwout bearing, standard Sachs disk.

Everything blueprinted and balanced to 1/4 of a gnat's posterior.

Lumenition electronic ignition and coil, Euro-only vacuum advance dizzy recurved by Mike Aaro, Magnacor 8mm wires. Not a trace of pinging.

(2) Weber 48DCO carbs on R-sport replica manifolds, 42mm venturis, custom air horns inside a Kevlar cold air box (made by Jonathan Panitz) fed through a huge K&N filter just behind the grill. Facet electric fuel pump, Holley pressure regulator.

Unitek Stage 2 4-2-1 header, 3" straight exhaust under the axle, Magnaflow straight-through muffler next to the gas tank.

Autometer monster tach fits where the old useless one was.

OE radiator and water pump, Flex-a-Lite electric fan with adjustable thermostat, no other fan.

Suspension has VPD progressive springs w/o spacers, urethane bushings throughout except for Delrin front uppers, Bilsteins, iPd bars. Rear bar is probably too much with the torque available, haven't had any track time with the new motor yet.

195/60-15 tires on old Cragar slotted mags. Tires are cheapos that were on the wheels when I bought them, will definitely be upgraded whenthe budget permits.

Stock brakes except for MetalMaster pads.

Bosch 55A alternator, electronic VR, Cibie' headlights with 100/130W bulbs, 12AWG wiring, two Hella power relays controlled by a 240-style headlight relay.

8^)

And oh so beautiful. I now know why you have traction problems :-D crappy 195s, can't handle that much power. With not much weight over the rear wheels it doesn't help either. So do you think you're going to make it out to PIR this summer? I can't wait to see it, you'll be at the garage sale for sure right? Peace,
--
Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil 68 142 (74 b20, broken m40) sleeps... (check out my website, www.cardomain.com/id/kneedsacar

Needs limited slip and better tires for sure.

I'm not into the drag nights thing, but I'd love to do some track days at PIR (Team Continental sessions, Alfa Club days, etc.). But now we live 200 miles way, and for the moment finances are tight... so we'll see how it works out when the time comes.

Garage sale is a real possibility, although we won't have a vendor spot this year. Shayne and Cameron have all the stuff I couldn't sell last time. I'm more likely to bring down the 122 for that one, though -- 1800 doesn't look interesting on display, it just *goes* interesting.

*^)

C'mon down! Marcus just told me that the Alfa guys have PIR this coming Saturday!

MPPE meets s/c?

Cameron
Rose City

Cameron, do you want to give me a ride there? I'd love to come watch and check out all the cars, and take a ride! w000! Actually, would there be any way my friend could drive his Nissan 240 there? How much does it cost? THANKS!
-Kyle
--
Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil 68 142 (74 b20, broken m40) sleeps... (check out my website, www.cardomain.com/id/kneedsacar

The Alfa guys are the NICEST car enthusiasts around here. I've never known them to turn anyone away - friend of mine took his 68 Plymouth out with them last time around. Even so, I'd check in advance. The club is "AROO."

$100. Must pass tech. If you don't have any track experience, they often have instructors who'll ride along. Have to know 5 or 6 flags I think, and you sign the "I'm stupid for doing this activity and if I get hurt it's my own fault" waiver.

Not sure I'm going - I really shouldn't spend any money right now.. but I do have slicks mounted and ready... hmmm...

Best,

Cameron
Rose City

Slicks? wow! Do they do drag racing too? Awesome. I wonder if my friend is up to it... Probably not being poor boys we are... But i'll ask him, and if i go, i'll let everyone know. Where can i find more info about this club? Or talk to someone in it? Thanks Cameron!
--
Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil 68 142 (74 b20, broken m40) sleeps... (check out my website, www.cardomain.com/id/kneedsacar

Grrrr... can't until finances improve. But by all means take that SC out there and give Marcus a few surprises.

8^)

Kyle,

It's not dyno'd yet.

I drove it for the first time in five months day before yesterday. We moved, and I had no place to do any car work at all until very recently -- some minor problems I couldn't get to, none of them with the engine, prevented me from driving it since the rainy season began.

It's not tuned quite right. The last thing I did to it before we moved was to replace the Weber factory air horns with some handmade Swedish ones that flow much better. That's basically a "start over" on jetting the carbs, but I wanted to make that change -- it was the last thing needed to bring the motor up to its design spec.

Apart from that, it's really nice once you get used to it. It starts easily and idles perfectly at 1000 rpm -- doesn't sound like a "hot" motor at all. It's not "cammy" -- pulls smoothly at 2000 rpm, although the real power starts at 3000. There's no vibration at all, and it's surprisingly quiet. It spins up like a really big Japanese bullet bike and sounds like one. Even in casual driving, not pushing it at all, it feels perfectly natural to shift up over 5000 rpm -- it likes that, and goes to 7000 easily if you do get on it. It runs cool -- it's got the original '67 radiator that I don't think has ever been worked on, there's no belt-driven fan at all, and the electric fan never comes on if the car is moving at all, even on 100 degree days.

Downside is that it takes a lot of attention to drive under 35 mph. Traction is a problem on any sort of wet pavement, even in third gear. In traffic, I usually just put it in fourth and let it loaf along. The flywheel is light enough that it's painful to keep a steady 25 mph -- you really feel the driveline loading and unloading. Crossing a parking lot requires a bunch of clutch action. I'm okay with this... 25 mph is not what this car is all about.

John has generously offered to pay for a dyno run. Anyone know where there's a reputable dyno (preferably a Superflow) between Seattle and the Canadian border?

--Phil