posted by
someone claiming to be Dave
on
Mon Jan 26 09:18 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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OK, everyone...I've got the itch for a new(er) car. The current '89 740GL is running great, and has low-ish miles at 135k. It's in super shape, with the exception of the headliner, which needs, of course, to be replaced. It's had a couple nickel-and-dime issues in the past, but nothing serious. I'm kinda jonesin' for a newer car...you know, something with ABS, AC that works, decent power...that sort of thing. About 3 hours away at separate dealers are two S90s, both with the cold weather pack-- the locking diff alone is worth the price of admission, IMHO. They're priced at $10,995 and $11,995, and both have under 60,000 miles. Should I pack it in with the ol' 740, or hang onto it indefinitely? Opinions, please...
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dave
on
Wed Jan 28 16:21 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for everyone's input. I've decided to go ahead and pull the trigger on an S90 (don't know which one until I see them both, and any others I can find in this area)..you only live once, right? The 740's nice and all, but it's getting some age-related issues headliner, dashboard, fuel delivery issues in extreme hot/cold that frankly, I don't want to deal with (I like keeping my cars at or near 100% at all times...it's much easier to do on a 9 year newer car.) I realize I'm getting into about the same or possibly even more for maintenance costs, but the tradeoffs, I feel, are worth it. If it were possible to keep the 740 as a beater, I'd do it, but I simply haven't the garage space and I HATE parking my cars outdoors, especially in the winter.
Actually, probably the most difficult part will be buying my first car ever without a clutch pedal... :-)
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posted by
someone claiming to be john
on
Sat Feb 14 14:56 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Dave I had a 240 wagon....and I just needed something more reliable and with AC heere in LA........I looked at many s90's and finally got one for 6$k......many are sitting on the market...some I looked at in august are still for sale.......it has more power and really feels like a luxury car ......you'll be happy you did it.....
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Well, good luck Dave! I'm sure you'll pick a lovely S90. Let us know, and post a pic of it for everyone to see :)
--
Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 287K km and '91 745 NA, 364K km.
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Another opinion surfaces! Under 60K mileage is good. Have a mechanic check it out. Offer the dlrs $500 to $1500 less than they are asking. They know the other has an S90 just like the one they do. Tell them what you can find on Ebay and you're not afraid to have a mechanic check it out in Dallas or buy a plane ticket. They need to move those cars. To the dlr mgr it's already a 6 yr old car and not an AWD. They will probably try and sell you an extended warranty at the end. Take it. That can take care of a number of small problems or big ones until it gets to 100K in mileage. My wife and I with our 3 kids (2 teenagers) made a Seattle to San Diego run in our 92 965 a couple of yrs ago during an unbelievable hot August. It was a great highway car. We zoomed thru the Siskyou's and the hills of San Francisco were no problem. We absolutely flogged the air conditioner. It would be a nice car for the Iowa run. BTW, the 92 is still doing great with 163K on it. I bought an S90 with only 30K miles on it a year ago and am still smiling every time I hop in it.
BTW, this forum will be a great asset to you, (along with the 700/900 FAQ) whatever your choice.
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score of the century....30k on the S90!!!!
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posted by
someone claiming to be 93-940 & 99-V70
on
Tue Jan 27 11:49 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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From your later posts, sounds like you are in Texas. I live in the Dallas area, and there is no contest as to the best Volvo dealer in the area, and I have been to them all. It is Point West Volvo at 183 & Carl Road in Irving. I have bought 3 there, an 850 (no longer have after owning for 5 years), and my current 1999 V70 and 1993 940. Best deals, largest selection in Texas (always have at least 20, usually more), HONEST, and best service. Almost everyone there seems to have been there at least 5 to 10 years. Give them a shot. I deal mostly with Mike. If you have service questions, the service manager is a pro, will even give advise if you fix it yourself
As to which to get, the other posts do a good job on the differences.
We love our 940NA, but of course we have our V70 turbo for that turbo kick. The 940 turbo is quite fast, and if you do the turbo things discussed elsewhere, the 230 engine will last forever. The ride in the 940 is not quite like our V70, but still very good, and definitely better that the 240's and 740's (I have friends with both). Nivomats are great If you tow or put a multible bike rack on the hitch.
Good luck, but PLEASE, don't by a Hondissotoyo. You've already got one incredibly boring (though reliable), but did I say boring, vehicle.
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93-940 & 99-V70 -
I'm in dallas - actually flower mound.
And we're a "92-940 & 940-945T"
BTW - my wife bought her '92 from point west many moons ago and over 125k ago. Now has 172k. I've been the primary mechanic on this puppy from day one (when she bought it). I agree - Point west is probably the best. You don't see 940s in there too often though.
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posted by
someone claiming to be 93-940 & 99-V70GLT
on
Wed Jan 28 02:11 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Glad you also had good luck there.
I pass by Pt. West every day on the way home (I take that exit). So, I usaully glance them over as I pass, and at least once a month stop in for a closer look (don't get swarmed like at most other dealers, maybe Mike or Charlie will wander out if you're there long enough). Mostly there are the 70's, 90's, 40's, 60's, and now quite a few 80's (DO NOT GET AN 80 FROM THE FIRST TWO YEARS). But often there will be one to three from the 200/700/900 series. They just had a 1991 745 with only 80K on it. Went in less than a week. When we bought our 940 about 5 months ago, they had one other 940 and two 960's. He would not sell me one of the 960's saying it had major problems and he would continue to hold it till they had to wholesale it out.
They are starting to get in a few XC90's on lease return. Have a beautiful metallic grey XC70 there now on their main "corner" display.
If you stay away from certain years, and get one that has been maintained, the 850/70's are fantastic cars. I can not begin to tell you how much we live our V70 (had for two years). Pt. West sells most of their's as Certified, so it has basically a bumper-to-bumper 6yr/100K warranty with a $50 deductable per event.
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Dave - man, you must've been reading my mind (two months ago). I really had the bug to trade up my wife's 940 for a newer 850 / S90 / V70 / S70 etc..... FWD cars. Like the look of them. Like the price (for the most part). But when I went out and started doing research on owner satisfaction....
I RAN LIKE THE WIND!!!!!
Great thing about the 700/900 series. Once you do all the basic 100k mile stuff (replace suspension / cooling system / electronic engine sensor stuff) - they are as good as new. I NEVER have problems with my 940s. Ever. They are only down when I do my preventative maintenence stuff.
To me, that counts for A LOT!!! And I do all my own work. I'd hate to have to budget for an indy shop working on my FWD V70.
I agree with some of the other posts - as far as proven reliability goes - nothing in the volvo repetiore (sp?) beats the red blocked bricks. My two centeroonies. Good luck with your decision.
For me, we'll stay put.
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posted by
someone claiming to be john
on
Sat Feb 14 14:59 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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the rear wheel drive of the S90 is why my mechanic recommended this model to me....I drove it vs.. the s70 series.....with front and the five cylenders......my first car was a ford crown victoria...so the torque in the back is what sold me on the S model.......inside seems nicer, too....
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FYI: The S90 is the last of the RWD cars that Volvo made. Essentially, it's a "re-badged" 960 with the inline 6 cylinder engine. The car is magnificent, and comparable to a Mercedes -- whereas that wasn't Volvo's goal with the 740 & 940 series.
Jeff Pierce
--
'93 945 Turbo ( one kickass family car ! ), '92 Mercedes 190E (my daily driver), '53 Willys-Overland Pickup (my snow-plow truck/conversation piece)
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jeff - right you are. Sloppy reading on my part. 'Twas late in the day when I posted that! Thanks.
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posted by
someone claiming to be sredwine
on
Tue Jan 27 07:00 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Dave,I've got a 98 V90 and a 94 944T and they are both great cars.The V90 has a more flexible and much better sounding powertrain.It also is newer which usually is better and has a very good factory stereo and more bells and whistles.Everyone has given good advice-maintain the V90 cooling system religiously if you decide to get it,ditto the timing belt.940Ts are rougher cars and the turbo does require more oil changes and will give a somewhat shorter engine life than an NA car.In my experience the V90 will get slightly better gas mileage on trips than the 944T-and it's definitely a cruiser! sredwine V90(had to go to Hickory,NC from Atlanta to get it),944T has 142K
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My '96 965, (wagon) has had many of the "problems" mentioned in the FAQ's for the 960 & S/V90s but it is still the best car I have ever owned in terms of problems per mile driven. Today's expectations are very high for newer cars.
The one major disaster most these cars seem to have succumed to is loosing the coolant followed by a bad case of overheating. The car has a low coolant indicator that must be taken seriously! The timing belt is super easy to replace so there is no excuse for neglecting that, but if one does, that is another way to turn the engine to junk.
The engine is a Porsche design which should easily go for 250K miles with good oil and filters.
The car handles equal to any BMW of comparible vintage and I was seduced with my first test drive. (No comparison to the earlier 700 and 940 designs.) At 112K miles all the suspension is original except for the rear shocks which are now Koni. (This compares to control arm bushings, ball joint, etc. on the earlier designs.)
--
'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.
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If cost is the issue, hold on to the 740. If you want the added features of the s90 then go for it. The safety features alone are a strong selling point as is the ride. No arguments that it does take some tlc to keep it running, but if you figure that you can probably get another 100k out of one of those cars for probably what a kia or hyundai would cost, then it's no contest. For sure have the car checked by an independent volvo mechanic, I would not trust the dealer in that respect. Somebody once called this car, "The last of the best of the Volvos".
--
97 S90 with 163K miles still going strong
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This really is a question of what you're looking for. If you simply want a newer, updated version of your 740, go with a 940. The 960 is a totally different animal and, despite looking like a 940 (at least for the first three years), can't be compared apples to apples. The 960 is for a person that is willing to pay a little more up front, pay a little more in maintenance costs, and spend a little bit more time under the hood, in exchange for having a much more modern, faster, and luxurious car. The ride, performance and handling of the last generation 960/90 can't even be compared with the 940. The 940's suspension and drivetrain is '70s technology whereas the 90 you're looking at is completely modern.
--
Lance '92 965 w/ 180K miles
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I agree with what everyone has said. The S/V90/960s are lovely cars, BUT they seem to require more money (probably not as much as a FWD Volvo) in terms of maintiance then the 200/700/940s. I really like the V90, and in fact tried to get my parents to buy a '98 with ~125K km last year, but personally I'm not sure I could afford to own a S/V90 or a 960. my mechanic has had a VERY nice '95 964 (pretty much a S90) for sale with ~135K km (~85K mi) on it for about 6 months now and can't seem to sell it. The price is reasonable, but the market for the car just isn't there :( My point is that I could probably sell my two 745s and buy the 960 (which I've driven several times), but I don't want to mostly because of the increased maintaince costs and I don't think I could make it last as long as a 700 or 940. If I were you, I'd take my time and search for a mint '93-'95 940 weather it be wagon or sedan (I prefer wagon), buy it, convert the fluids to synthetic, take the best care of it I could and drive it for years to come. As far as I'm concerned (my Volvo mechanic too), the '91-'95 700/940s are the best Volvos ever made, and I don't see them outdoing that any time soon. I hope this helps!
--
Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 287K km and '91 745 NA, 363K km.
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well sounds to me that what your looking for is a late model 940 turbo...
has all the stuff you want...also will feel right at home in terms of beign just like the 740 to work on...but goes faster, and has a b230...what more could you want?
in all seriousness the NICE thing about 940's are they are 740's with bells and whistles and the END of the evolutionary line. the s90 was partly the start of the evoltuionary line for the 850...(the engine, as I understand it) is abasically an 850 block mated to a rwd platform...
so with a s90 your buying version 1.0 of that engine as it were as opposed to 99.999 of the b230 in a 940 turbo...
jsut my 2c and all my opinion....
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I agree with Justin's remarks. I've owned two; first went to my son and family, and I currently drive a 97 V90. This model does have issues in the tradition of all Volvos, and my guess it might cost more in maintenance than our 740, depending on what you can do yourself. Regardless find a very competent mechanic that you rely on for those times you can't figure it out. Various S/V90 owners (as well as nonowners) will weigh in here. Sift through it and act prudently.
The one requirement for this car, however, is that it must be driven. It's right at home cruising at 70+ mph for hours on end. It's best if you do that kind of driving on a regular basis, or at least 2-3 times a year. It is also a very comfortable car on the road. Gas mileage, is another matter.
Clearly knowing as much as you can about the car prior to purchase is to your benefit, and is especially true for these cars. You can call Volvo of America Customer Service and give them the VIN. They should be able to tell you where it was put into service. Immediate post-purchase concerns are the timing belt (70K) and probably a good tune-up with complete fluid flush and replacement with synthetics where appropriate (including the transmission) and fresh brake and Volvo coolant.
Good luck with your decision...
--
John Shatzer, '97 V90 @ 105K
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posted by
someone claiming to be tjts1
on
Mon Jan 26 10:25 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Dave
I don't want to say the 960/S90 is a bad car. I have one and I love it. But i would be really really suspicious of a "good deal" from a dealer on one. Wharever you decide to do, don't buy the car without having it checked out by an independent Volvo mechanic that is very familiar with this particular model. Dealer cars usually have no maintanance records. But ask for it just in case. Also remember that this car will never be as economical in terms of mileage and repairs as your 740. The S90 is a very complex car compared to the 740. If you are willing to live with these things and your mechanic gives you the green light the S90 is a very nice luxury car at a good price. It is the most advanced RWD car Volvo ever produced in terms of engine management and electronics. If you treat it well it will treat you well with the occasional surprise just to keep things interesting.
If you are looking at this from a purely economical point of view it will be far cheaper for you to bring your 740 to like new condition. At 135K miles your car has a lot of life left in it.
Good luck
Justin
94 965
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posted by
someone claiming to be john
on
Sat Feb 14 14:53 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Justin....
I finally broke down and bought an s90....single owner.....good records....good person....105k miles....I had the 240 wagon '87....but it just didn't cut it powerwise and minor repairs with almost 300k....(I am keepnig it for surfing)
my indepentdent volvo mech ok'd the car
here is my question....today the check engine light went on intermitantly.....an ideas?
John....mrlucky1@mac.com
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dave
on
Mon Jan 26 13:45 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for the input, everyone. The main reason I'm looking at an S90 is for long distance travel...we take semi-annual trips to visit my family in Massachusetts from Iowa. With the birth of our second child, it's no longer economical to fly. I'd be perfectly happy keeping the 740 as my "around town" car, but I haven't any space for a third vehicle (wife has made it perfectly clear that her '94 Accord coupe isn't going anywhere.) I'm really sold on the feel of a RWD Volvo, and the idea of one with more recent safety features definitely has its appeal. The additional power doesn't hurt, either. :-) I wouldn't mind if maintenance costs were roughly on par with the 740, though if they were significantly more I might be forced to look elsewhere. Like most people, I want Camry reliability without having to drive a Camry. :-) Since that's not possible, I'll deal with the additional maintenance costs...with the Accord, I'm familiar with the importance of changing the T-belt on an interference engine, and I know from reading in here that the Nivomats can be ghastly expensive to replace. Keep the input coming...thanks, everyone.
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The S/V90/960 certianly seem like nice hwy cars. As I said, I'd love to get a mint one for my mom as a summer car (She has a new Pathfinder for the winter). It sounds to me like a later, loaded 940 would fit your needs as well. You could bring the handling/ride of the 940 closer to a later 960 by purchasing some upgraded shocks and a set of IPD sway bars. The only real obvious safety thing you would be missing out on in a later 940 would be side airbags. As for power, the inline 6 is a little smoother and quieter, but the only place I could really see it challanging a B230FT (turbo) is accelerating at speeds over 60mph, and the turbo is no slouch at those speeds. I don't think there would be much of a difference in fuel economy (the turbo might be a little better). As far as I'm aware, not all S90s and 964s had Nivomats, so you might get luckey there if you don't really need them. If you bought a 940 and needed heavier rear suspension you could by a set of load springs and some upgraded shocks to handle the extra load and avoid Nivomats. Anyway, check the 700/900 FAQ to get more of an idea of the differences between the 700/940 and S/V90/960. I worked for my Volvo mechanic this summer so if you have any more questions about the differences feel free to email me and I'll be checking this thread again :) The 700/940 and S/V90/960 share the same basic platform. I know that for a fact (it's pretty obvious when you compare), so many structural design aspects are exactly the same or similar. The S/V90/960('95+) have totally different suspension then the 700/940 that is more modern, but also more costly to repair. The dash of a S/V90/960 is basically the same as that in a '88-'90 760 and '91 940SE. Many of the electrical and drivetrain components are not the same, so therefore cannot be salvaged from 700/940s. I hope this helps with your decision and I'll be interested to know what you end up buying :) Oh one last thing; I don't blame your wife for loving her Honda. They're great cars (if you can keep them from rusting, lol). My dad bought his '93 Acura (Honda) Vigor new and hasn't looked back since. We've stored it the last 6 winters to prevent rust problems, it's got just over 226K km (~141K mi) on it now and is still working wonderfully. Great car, we really like it...and it'd blow the doors off a stock 700T/940T or S/V90/960 any day, lol :)
--
Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 287K km and '91 745 NA, 363K km.
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After driving both cars, there is little comparison except the sound when you shut the door. The 960/S90 is butter smooth, very sophisticated feeling, and has a stunning interior. It does cost a little more to maintain. The Nivomats are not really an issue...most everyone I've known who's had one of these cars has only had to replace them every 100K miles. If you shop around you can find them for around $225 each. That's not a bad price for the great function they serve.
There are several 960/S90 cars here in Dallas for sale. The prices you listed are higher than they show here. Check out cars.com and see what's there for Texas.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dave
on
Mon Jan 26 16:22 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Yeah, most of the cars in Texas/down south don't have the cold weather pack (I couldn't care less about the heated seats, really, but the limited slip diff is a must, especially after my open-diff 740) plus the cost of shipping/flying down there and driving it back would likely cancel out any cost savings. I'll keep the idea open, though.
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Dear Dave,
Good a.m. and may this find you well.
Car transport firms that will bring a car from Texas to the Northeast for about $700. That likely is less than the cost of an air ticket to the seller's city, and the fuel, time, wear and tear, etc. to drive the car back.
You can try Dependable Auto Shippers (www.dependableautoshippers.com).
Yours faithfully,
spook
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