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Wow, Cath53181 used a similar Subject line and already has 53 responses ( a record?) so I'm hoping to get half that many responses to my post.
My '96 960 (132,000) recently failed the VA emisssions test because of high NOx readings. I had some repair work done to the tune of $275 but now fear that I need a catalytic converter. I've read a number of postings here that warn about inexpensive cat converters. My funds are tight and I can't spend unlimited funds getting thos problem fixed.
I found a cat converter online from OEM Wholesale Parts for $303. What, if anything, can anyone tell me about this company and their parts and what suggestions does anyone have for getting this problem fixed?
Many Thanks in Advance
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Hey Shag, wanna visit? I've got a 960 wagon and a code reader as well.
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Warren Bain - '99 V70GLT G-Valve > 80K mi, 89 300SE, '96 965 >120Kmi, near Manassas Va.. Check the 700/900 FAQ via the 'features' pull down menu. This post written with 100% recycled electrons.
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Warren,I just read your Post and thought I would answer. I finally got my car through the emissions inspection. Ended up costing me over $1,100 with Oskuie. It's hard to tell if I was ripped off or not.
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I've just reviewed my manual for that P0410 code and the quickest diagnosis can be done by the dealer with the Volvo scan tool. It can disect the OBD-II codes into much finer EFI codes that lead to dignostic procedures in the manual. Get to a qualified well equiped dealer or get the manual TP2321201 and follow the procedures assuming various starting points as would be indicated by one of the Volvo EFI codes.
I didn't follow all the diagnostic branches but in all of the ones I followed NONE pointed to the CAT. Most involve leaks in hoses, a bad/stuck PAIR valve (The valve over the exhaust manifold), wireing between the ECU and the solenoid, bad solenoid but your's is new, etc.
Don't replace any more expensive parts without a diagnosis! You will waste a lot of $.$$
The ECU is a 32 bit processor with a lot of diagnostic information and engineering time represented. Make use of it, please.
--
'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.
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J,
I can't thank you enough for this information. I really questioned why I would need a new cat and now I'm virtually certain that I don;t .
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I've been thinking about your problem some more and have a question. You said the Check Engine had been on for some time. How long, a few days or weeks. I'm guessing that if the check engine had been on for a very long time it is possible that the "3 way" catalyst could have been degraded. It should clean up once the operating conditions are restored to normal, I think.
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'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.
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What is the "3 way catalyst?"
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Earlier design CATs didn't do anything to reduce the NOx polutants and they lowered them with exhaust gas recirculaion, EGR valves etc. The present CAT is designed to deal with the NOx gases. I don't remember what the 3 polutants are specifically. HC, CO, NOx????????
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'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.
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J, the check engine light has been on for weeks. Originally, there were three (3) separate fault codes. I could only afford to fix one at a time. One was for the PNP which I replaced and the second was for the Gear Sensor Position Switch which I also replaced. I then started working on the third fault code and have replaced the Secondary Air Solenoid but this did not fix the problem
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HMMMMMMMMMMMMM, I'm not sure what a "Gear Sensor Position Switch" switch is. Have you been collecting the old parts to be sure they were really needed? The PNP, (Park-Neutral-Position,) switch is a known replacement item on all of Volvo's later designs.
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'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.
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When did VA start emissions testing? I just got a sticker for my 92,960 in Richmond and never saw a probe go into my tailpipe. Your car has a very good system for telling you when work is needed it is called OBDII. It will tell you when you have emission problems. It sounds like nobody knows whats going on.
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sped, I live in Northern VA (Fairfax) and we've had emissions tests for the past 15 years or so. Another little "goody" that we have to contend with and other state residents don't. The OBDII diagniostic system gave a fault code of P0410 (Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction). The mechanic who worked on my car suggested that we remove and replace the Secondary Air Solenoid and said if that didn;t fix the problem the next step would be to replace the Catalytic Converter. It didn't correct the problem.
The check engine light went out for two days but came back on and the car failed the retest with even worse numbers than before.
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The OBD-II code isn't telling you the CAT has a problem, which it can do by comparing the front and rear sensors.
When my car "threw that code" it turnd out to be a rubber connection between the plastic hose the comes from the solenoid and the EGR valve. $1.00 or so for the part to fix it.
A CAT should last much longer than your's has. You can replace the whole 'air injection system for 1/10 the cost of a CAT. Does the mechanic have the Volvo shop manual and Volvo scan tool to properly follow all the diagnostic steps?
--
'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.
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J, According to the mechanic my car ('96 - 960) doesn't have an EGR valve.
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Anyway, there is a valve that sits just over the exhaust manifold that is part of the "Secondary Air Injection System". I'll have to re-read my manual. The solenoid is located on the driver side fender at the other end of the plastic hose.
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'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.
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J,
Are you referring to the "injection" valve?
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J, thanks for your input on this topic. What I'm hearing from several "Bricksters" is that the problem is most likely a vacum leak from a bad hose or connection. I don't know whether or not he has the Volvo shop manual and the Volvo scan tool.
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Your car is equipped with the OBD2 diagnostic system. Is the check engine light on? If yes the OBD2 system will give a fault code to help pinpoint the problem, especially if ta fault which is emissions related. It would be assumed that whoever diagnosed a failed cat converter has read the code, yes? There is no use guessing what might be causing this problem when the correct cause can be diagnosed then corrected.
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David Hunter
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Dave, the check engine light had been on for some time. The OBD2 diagnostic system gave a code of P0410 (Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction). The mechanic removed and installed a new Secondary Air Solenoid. The check engine light went out for two days but has since come back on and my car failed the emissions retest when I took it back. The mechanic said "if the car fails the retest it will need a converter."
The Vehicle Emissions Inspection Report indicates that the Catalytic Converter Passed the initial and follow-up Inspection.
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The light staying out for two days could have been that the system didn't get fully checked by the OBD-II algorithm for that length of time. The mechanic should have the Volvo scanner to read the Volvo "DTCs" which would have indicated if the repair was succesful.
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'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.
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Any OBD2 scanner will read the emission related codes which are standard across the industry. You can even go to Auto Zone and have the code read for free. They use a $150.00 Actron hand held scanner. I am sure this "mechanic" has a scanner but does he understand OBD2, many do not.
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David Hunter
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True and I have a cable and software to use with my PALM or Laptop. The problem with this code is that the OBD-II standard was set up before Bosch developed their clever system that has many parts and multiple ways of failing. The Volvo DTC or EFI-xxx codes are specific to Volvo and only their reader can get them.
Once you have the Volvo code it leads you into a diagnostic procedure in their manual. I just got lucky! With my OBD-II pointing me to the Pulsed Secondary Air system, I found the rotted rubber connecter between the PAIR valve and the plastic tube from the solenoid just by looking things over once I knew what parts were involved.
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'96 965 with 16' wheels at 112K. Had '85 745 Turbo Diesel for 200K.
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The mechanic said "if the car fails the retest it will need a converter."
When you get stuff like that from this mechanic your response could be such questions as:
Why?
Could you explain in more detail please?
What is the code this time?
Why didn't the first repair fix my problem?
How did you diagnose which part was at fault?
Was the system tested after the new part was put in?
You may quickly find out about his knowledge base and ethics. Many mechanics do not understand OBD2 or how emission systems on the car work.
For your information there are several other components to the sec. air inj. system. There is a motor/pump, a relay, an injection valve and a solonoid valve. Any of them can fail. This motor/pump is only activated 12 seconds after a cold start, it runs for 70 seconds then shuts off, does not operate when a warm engine is started. You can easily observe the air pump motor by opening the hood after a cold start. Does it operate? It's sole purpose is to help heat up reaction in the cat while engine is warming up. After that it serves no purpose.
If the VA test is done with tail pipe sniffer this system would not cause a failure because the test is typically done with a warmed up engine. Do they observe the check engine light and read the codes as part of the test in VA?
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David Hunter
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In fact, printed on the mechanic's invoice it reads, " *** FYI, IF VEHICLE STILL FAILS EMISSIONS TEST IT WILL NEED A CONVERTER."
The VA test is done with a tail-pipe sniffer and is done with a warmed up engine. I don;t believe they actually read the codes and if so, they don;t provide the codes.
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Sounds as if the mechanic is on the wrong track.
Just because something is printed on his invoice in CAPITALS does not make it true.
What is the current fault code?
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David Hunter
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The easy way to check for a failed cat is to use a remote IR thermometer.If the back of the cat doesnt get blazing hot, its dead. Emission control stations may have one of these tools, also restauraunts where food is served on a 'sizling plate', and other industrial uses. the cat outlet should be much hotter than the inlet, as internal operating temps range from 600-2200 F. If it is unconclusive, unplug one spark plug, and run the engine at 2000 rpm for half a minute, reconnect the plug, and run more at fast idle. The built up fuel on the cat will get it going if there is anything left inside, and it might even stay hot long enough to pass a test. If it didnt get hot, its internals have probably migrated into your muffler.
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posted by
someone claiming to be art
on
Mon Jan 26 11:05 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Confessing ignorance of 960s or most anything that late model, don't OBD2 cars measure both in front and at the exit of the CAT? Just for that reason?
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yes!
DEWFPO
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1998 S90 066,800 and 1995 964 150,200
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I would check EVERY single rubber vacuum hose in the engine compartment for a vac. leak. If none found, pinch off the line going into the firewall that controls all the HVAC vacuuum bellows. You may have a leak in one of those. I actually had two bellows go bad in a short period of time. Both were leaking at one time. This causeed a vacuum leak(s) under the dash.
Check the small rubber pre-bent vacuum elbows near the throttle body. I has holes in two (again?) on the INSIDE of the bends. Hard to spot without taking them off and inspecting.
Both of the above vacuum leaks were on our 95 960.
What repairs did you have done?
Do you know if the EGR is working fine?
The
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1998 S90 066,800 and 1995 964 150,200
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Dewfpro,
Thanks for your advice and input. I'm going to follow it and see where it leads.
The diagnostic code (0410)indicated that there was a poblem with the secondary air flow. The mechanic removed and installed a new Secondary Air Solenoid and added a can of BG44K Fuel System Additive. The "check engine light" went out for two days but came back on. My car failed the emsissions retest.
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while I know practically nothing about my car, or yours, I just wanted to say everyone on this site is absolutely wonderful and very helpful! Hope you get the help you need!
~Catherine
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posted by
someone claiming to be MittenHed
on
Mon Jan 26 07:14 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Before you dump a bundle of bux on parts, what is the deal? High NOx, obviously, but how about the hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide? A catalytic converter will not cure a combustion problem, and may not be the answer to your problem. The solution could be as simple as replacing a cracked vaccuum hose.
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On the ASM Tailpipe Emissions Inspection my car registered the following:
Limit Reading Result
HC ppm 71 11 Pass
CO% 0.39 0.00 Pass
No ppm 553 2456 Fail
Does this provide you with enough information to properly diagnose?
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posted by
someone claiming to be MittenHed
on
Mon Jan 26 07:48 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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My experience has more to do with combustion than how to fix your car, but the test results indicate a very lean mixture. NOx is formed when there is plenty of air available during the process, CO and HCs are produced when there is little air. Indication is that you have an air leak somewhere, or that there is some other reason for excessive O2 in your process. A cat will help reduce NOx when the fuel air mixture is properly balanced, but is probably not the sole solution to your problem. Check for vaccuum leaks.
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Thanks very much for this information and advice
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I am sorry to not provide you with any advice, but I seem to have a similar problem with you. I do not know the exact code "volvo code" that my car trigered, but the one that came up on a generic OBDII reader was p0103 I believe. It's explenation was " failure of the secondary air intake system". Now to reset this code I disconect my battery for about one minute. That takes care of reseting it but I get the check engine light after at least two weeks. I even have observed that when it's rainy for days at a time it come up faster.
Did you resolve you problem? Does any of this sound similar to your problem? Any ideas?
Thank you in advance, Vlonjati
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