Hi All.

I am a new member in search of some advice from folks experienced in the ways of the Volvo.

I have just become a first-time Volvo owner as of Saturday. I purchased a very clean and seemingly well-maintained 1995 960 wagon with 89k miles. It was a local 1 owner trade-in at the local Audi dealership. I paid $9600 for it. After reading some of the posts on this site I am wondering if I paid too much, however it did come with two sets of fresh Michelin Pilot tires, one for summer and one set for winter mounted on steel wheels. The car appears to have been meticulously maintained, came with a fair amount of service records, was clean enough to eat off of, the engine and tranny felt smooth and capable, and it was overall a very satisfying car to drive. I imagined myself with my wife and our two kids along with all of our "gear" traveling across country (in style) seeking adventure on family vacations in this refined and luxurious automobile!

However, after completing the transaction late in the afternoon on Saturday, we drove the car approximately ten miles before we noticed that it was leaking coolant. The top inlet of the radiator was apparently cracked and the pressure of the coolant in conjunction with my grasping the hose to see if it was tight, caused the inlet to break off spraying scalding coolant in every direction. No one was injured, thankfully. However, both my wife and I were succumbing to a bit of buyer's remorse as the tow truck hauled our "new" Volvo back to the (now closed for the day) dealership where it had come from. Bummer.

I was referred to this site by another Volvo owner, and after reading some posts in regards to other member's radiator problems I figure that this is a fairly common problem. The dealership is going to fix the radiator problem for me, but they are not a Volvo shop, so that makes me slightly wary as I have read some posts here where users insist on using Volvo Brand Coolant, etc.

Any support or advice anyone has to offer, positive or negative or whatever, would be appreciated, as I really want this car to run forever and I am very much interested in performing as much maintenance myself.

I look forward to reading future posts.
Thanks in advance,
kkoch

Karl,

I would not worry about instaling a "rebuilt" radiator. Any decent shop will not return a radiator core to service that shows wear or decay, after all, if they OK it and it leaks, they EAT the whole job again. I install radiators ALL the time, about 1/2 are rebuilt because you cannot get a new one, or because the new one costs 2x-4x more than rebuilding the old. I look at it this way on the 960, would you replace the door glass just because the lift motor quit? Of course not, you would replace the part that failed like any reasonable person.

One thing I have picked up here is that the I-6 engine does MUCH better with synthetic oil. They seem to run better and from what I've read are much less likely to have lifter troubles (not that it's common anyway) on synthetic. Something to consider.

My parents bought a '95 960 last summer and paid about $7500 for it, and it NEEDED paint, and it had similar miles to yours. Wagons are selling for a real premium in the Twin Cities (Mn), so you did well I think.
--
JohnG 1989 245 MT @216,500

JohnG,

Thanks for the encouraging reply.

Since I got the car back this past Friday everything has been great. I can detect no leaks of coolant, although we've only taken the car out 3 times. My stepson is a former mechanic, Volvo owner, and the one who referred me to this very informative bulletin board. Like you, he wasn't overly concerned about the whole radiator rebuild issue, so that was reassuring as well.

We have only a one-car garage and the Volvo has been sitting outside. I installed the snow tires Saturday , then Sunday we got about 7 inches of snow and the wind chill yesterday was about -15 degrees farenheit. The wife ran errands yesterday and really appreciated the creature comforts in our 965. The wife said it started right up and was very comfortable and said the Volvo got around quite well in whatever snow she encountered.

Wife driving confidently. . . babies strapped into rear seat. . . strollers and assorted baby stuff all strapped into the back cargo area with lots of extra room for groceries . . . . ahhhh. Now I can rest a little easier.

Take care,
Karl
--
'95 960 Wagon 90K,'98 Subaru Outback Sport Wagon 85K, '94 Toyota Pickup 2WD 49K

oh my.....bad luck to have something break as soon as you get a car....
rebuilding a radiator is all the dealership may do..they are NOT bound to
replace parts with genuine oem...only to make the car servicable as to it's
age and milage..but dont worry,,if the core is good rebuilding it is fine..
a LOT of cars use alumn rads...a good coolant will state it to be used in them..
dont worry,,rebuilt with good coolant,,no prob..
other stuff as mentioned like belts,hoses,timing belt are worth looking at replacement history tho.
my only ?? would be,,why did you pay so much for a car that age ..??
89 240dl.wagon.$450 plus $50 to fix..no rust ,docs from new..i'm second owner.
89 740,,needed rear brake pads,,battery,,pass window dont work,,no rust,,i'm 3rd owner,$100,,gave away to a friend in need..
95 960.needed rear brake pads.$30,fixed myself..132k mi...both sets of wheels..
needed winter tires on steel wheels..$1000..i'm 3rd owner..
just saying,,shop around,,,look carefully,,listen to everybody...

Well, I guess I was being somewhat impulsive. I had been shopping for a wagon for my wife to haul the kids in. I wasn't having much luck finding anything for under ten grand. Then along came this beautiful car and I knew it would suit our needs perfectly. The only thing I knew about Volvos is that they have a reputation for safety.

Well, I got it back from the dealer Friday and drove it around this weekend. All seems to be well. The car is in beautiful condition and I am quite pleased. If only I had gotten it for less $$$!!!
--
'95 960 Wagon 90K,'98 Subaru Outback Sport Wagon 85K, '94 Toyota Pickup 2WD 49K

Broken radiators are common on cars these days. I had one on my departed 740T and one day I stopped on the side of the road to add some water. A Saftey Patrol truck stopped to assist. The guy said he sees broken radiators all the time.

Figure 10 years or 100K miles. I replaced the rad in my 960 last summer just on principal.

You night also think about replacing all the coolant hoses, upper and lower radiator, expansion tank (2), oil cooler hoses (2) (the oil filter and cooler is under the front of the engine), heater hoses (2) and you might think of getting a new heater control valve as well, it's plastic too

Use ONLY Volvo coolant. Don't use the red DEX stuff either.

BTW, it really sucks that the radiator broke your first day of ownership.

MAke sure the timing belt has been changed. Look for a silver sticker on the front of the timing belt cover.

--
Warren Bain - '99 V70GLT G-Valve > 80K mi, 89 300SE, '96 965 >120Kmi, near Manassas Va.. Check the 700/900 FAQ via the 'features' pull down menu.

Also on principle, I would add the power steering hose to that list, given my recent experience...
--
John Shatzer, '97 V90 @ 105K

I'd pay that in a heartbeat if the car otherwise checked out! Prices and availibility do vary from place to place. I'll defer to the experts on the maintenance questions, but gotta say that the 960 is a marvellously comfortable machine for long road trips. At least you didn't get stuck with the '92, which is the source of a lot of the sad tales.
Welcome to the board.
--
We have met the enemy and they is us. [Pogo] S70 cop car : Rough Rider tires& suspension, Walmart fog lights, eBay speakers, ambiance by Pall Mall, trim by Le Duc d'Tape, 8-channel THD by OEM amps

Verify that the car had the timing belt service (if you didn't already). THere are a lot of good threads in the 900 series forum about this and about what else to have done at the same time.

The plastic radiators are totally prone to that kind of breakage. I have replaced many because of that, and when I took the electric fan shroud off of one of my own cars to do a T-belt service, I found that my radiator had a big crack in it, but it didn't go all the way through. Sure enough, the second I put pressure on the hose to remove it (once the new radiator arrived) it broke off without any effort. But it wasn't even leaking before that. It might have gone unnoticed for many months like that, but because I know about this from experience (a lot of experience with Volvo products especially 90-) I was on the lookout for it.

I'm sure the engine underwent a full detailing, and during that process, someone might have leaned on the upper hose, or done something--even minor--to cause this to happen. It is totally common. The bottom line is to make sure that it is fixed, and thereafter everything should be OK.

With respect to coolant, make sure that they use fresh coolant. The Volvo-brand coolant isn't really necessary, but good quality coolant is important especially for an aluminum engine. If that still doesn't make you satisfied, have the system flushed with Volvo brand coolant at a dealer after you get the radiator fixed. It'll set you back a lot of money for the service (pricey coolant) but you'll have the peace of mind factor.

One thing about Volvos -- and I know better than many -- is that while they are very good cars (even the 960/*90 series like you have), they are not trouble free, or as trouble free as other cars. Anyone who tells you that they "did nothing" to their Volvo and kept it for hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles, either isn't being truthful, or their car was a shitbox with most things no longer functional. I have seen it again and again. But it is a good platform to start with, which is not true of all other cars.

The bottom line is, the 960 has a strong powertrain if you keep it healthy. If neglected, it really isn't good, and isn't as resilient to neglect as are the 2.3L 4cyl engines that really made Volvo known for longevity from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. If you take care of it properly, it should give you a lot of good service.

Hi Herb,
Haven't heard much from you recently. Hope you are doing well. Ever succumb to the 960 allure?
--
John Shatzer, '97 V90 @ 105K

I haven't yet succumbed to a 960 or an S90. I got really caught up with work (still am) and all things automotive went by the wayside, except for service. I still look around when I have the chance, though. Mostly on eBay.

Chris I agree with you 100%. I love these cars for ther refinement,and long haul driving comfort. I now have 4 960's and all of them have the nissens replacement radiator, which looks like the factory unit. I use prestone antifreeze and have never had a problem. Happy New Year. Sped

thanks for the reply, Chris Herbst!

I chuckled at your comment:

"Anyone who tells you that they "did nothing" to their Volvo and kept it for hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles, either isn't being truthful, or their car was a shitbox with most things no longer functional."

Haha. A BRICK shitbox!

Once again, thanks for the reply. I can't stand to see something turned to shit because of neglect and abuse. As I said in my original post, this car is an amazingly clean ride . . . I hope to keep it that way and see that it gets all of the attention that it needs to make it through the next decade and hopefully beyond..

Karl

Dear Karl,

Good p.m. and may this find you well. You should "suggest" to the dealership that an OEM radiator and coolant are required. You - and they - were fortunate that no one was hurt when the radiator fell apart in your hands. They could have had a lawsuit. As others have pointed out, it is well known that metal/plastic radiators fail as the plastic becomes brittle with age. I suspect that had they known to look for it, they would have seen a crack.

You doubtless know from reading postings, that 960 engines can be badly damaged quickly by over-heating, which fact you can also bring to their attention. Kudos to you for having been quick to pull over when you noticed something awry.

The sellin dealer likely go to the Volvo dealership for a replacement radiator. They will not want to risk getting a radiator that won't fit properly. They want to get the radiator in, and get the car back to you, as soon as possible.

If the wrong type of coolant is used, it can lead to premature radiator failure. You might want to point this out. They may, or may not, know that from their own experience. If they do, they'll get Volvo coolant. If not, you may persuade them to do so. Even if they don't, you can dump their coolant and replace it with the right stuff fairly easily.

At the risk of laboring the obvious, I'd get the radiator hoses changed at the same time, unless you have records that show this was done recently. This is a cheap form of preventive maintenance.

BTW, if the car was serviced at a local Volvo dealer, you can call them, give them the last 6-8 numerals of the VIN, and they can usually recall the service records for the car. If you go by in person, they may even give you a copy. You can also contact the previous owner (their name likely is on the title) and ask them if they have any additional records. Most Volvo owners are, I find, pretty civilized folks.

All the best for a Safe and Healthy 2004.

Yours,

spook


p.s. While I have never had a 960, I know from reading posts that timing belt breakage wrecks the engine. Thus, timing belt replacement MUST take place before the mileage passes the specified limit. If your records don't show when the timing belt was last replaced, get the records that show this, or get the timing belt done tomorrow!

Thanks for the reply, spook.

I took your advice and contacted my sales rep. He says his service department sent the radiator out to a radiator shop to be rebuilt. The parts are due in sometime tomorrow, but the car won't be ready until Friday, due to the holiday (new years). I mentioned the Genuine Volvo Coolant, but he waffled a bit. I figured that once he's got it fixed I could replace the coolant with the good stuff.

Meanwhile I called the local Volvo Garage and asked about the service history on this vehicle. I asked the guy on the phone about my concern that I had genuine Volvo coolant in the car, but he seemed to be unconcerned and didn't think it was a big deal. I don't really know hoe Volvo's Coolant differs from other coolants. Are there major differences?

However, I was happy to find that in August of 2002 the car had its timing belt replaced, the transmission flushed, new brake pads front and rear, the AC was serviced, and since then .... replaced the AC compressor belt, new shocks for the front, replaced a defective Park/Nuetral switch in addition to regular scheduled maintenance and fluid checks.

I'm looking forward to getting the car back this Friday and going for a drive.

Thanks again for posting your suggestions.
Karl

Dear Karl,

Good p.m. I'm no radiator expert. But I've can't recall ever hearing anyone on this Board - and there are some genuine experts, who contribute - mention "rebuilding" a radiator for a 940. Why would anyone do this, when replacements are available?

That comment - and the sale's reps not being clear on the virtues of one coolant versus another - suggests to me that this is not the person, with whom you should speak.

If I were you, I'd follow up with the service manager, and ask him where they are going to get the REPLACEMENT radiator. If he talks about "rebuilding", head for the hills. Resign yourself to removing whatever they put in, and replacing it with an Volvo unit. Based on others' comments, 960 engines can be ruined very quickly by coolant loss. You quick wits saved you once...

My comments on genuine Volvo coolant's properties were based on comments I've read here. If you go back through the posts, you can pick up the discussion. Some coolants apparently accelerate radiator corrosion faster than others (there is an unavoidable electrolytic transfer of metal from the radiator to the engine; it is faster in brass core radiators, than in aluminum core radiators).

Since the Volvo dealer has the records for the car you bought, I'd recommend you get hard copies of everything they have (even if the PO kept their receipts and will give them to you). The dealership will surely make copies gratis, or at a nominal cost. If you get copies, you will not have to rely on your memory two or three years hence, as to when something was done. By then, the dealership may have purged the records, as often is done if they don't see a car for a year or so.

When I got the records for the cars I bought, I prepared an Excel spreadsheet, with date, mileage, the work done, and where it was done. That way, I have a concise maintenance log.

Volvos are to a degree like aircraft: they need specific maintenance, done at specific intervals, sometimes in very specific ways. Thus, methinks it's best to have records of what was done, by whom, and when.

Yours,

spook

Spook,

Now I am spooked. I am going to have to follow up with these folks as you suggested, and get some things clear. Have you ever purchased replacement parts from automix.com? I found the radiator I think I need there for 200 bucks.

http://www.automotix.com/car_radiators/volvo-960_series-1995-radiators---71191995029.html

I've flushed and replaced the coolant in a '78 Audi Fox Wagon and an '82 Honda Accord. Bolting a radiator into place and connecting a few hoses is easy enough. But never having owned a Volvo before, I am interested in any suggestions, tips, or tricks or tips anyone has to share.

thanks!

Dear Karl,

Good p.m. Have the selling dealer (Audi) take the car to the Volvo dealer on a flat-bed truck (no front-lift towing).

Have the Volvo dealer do the radiator. That way, you get the right part, the right coolant, and you can get the hoses done at the same time. That way, you know your car is right.

The Volvo dealer can send the bill to the Audi dealer.


Yrs.,

spook

p.s. I've never bought parts from automix.com. or pulled a radiator in a Volvo. My 240 ('85GL, 198K) never needed a radiator. My 940s had the rad changed before I bought them. I've bought parts from FCP Groton, and they've been just fine.

spook,

Thanks for the advice. I called my stepson, a former mechanic and Volvo owner, and he laughed at me and said that I always end up the victim. (sigh) I figured I would just get the car back from the Audi guys as fast as they could take care of it. The sales guy was very apologetic and sincere about making sure we were "taken care of" and so I decided not to press the issue of a brand new radiator and accept the rebuild. They didn't charge me for any parts or labor, so I am happy about that.

We had a -15 wind chill yesterday and the Volvo was not garaged, yet it started up and hauled the wife and kids around in great style.

I am feeling much better about the whole mishap with the radiator, but will be contacting the local Volvo guys to see what they charge for a flush and fill with Volvo coolant.

Yours,
Karl
--
'95 960 Wagon 90K,'98 Subaru Outback Sport Wagon 85K, '94 Toyota Pickup 2WD 49K

I'm a bit surprised by their thought of rebuilding the radiator. It's done all the time, especially with domestics, but it's really a false economy. They simply replace the tanks and the tank seals, using a tool that allows them to pull back the tabs holding the tanks in place. The problem as I see it is this: are they trying to be so cheap that they're just going to replace the top tank? That's frankly a bullshit approach and you should firmly and politely demand, especially given the premium price you paid for the car, that they install a new, guaranteed radiator. Anything else is really not acceptable.
Richard

Richard,

You have a good point, and yes, they are cheap lousy bastards. However, they are replacing all the parts except the radiator core.

I was kind of concerned, since one of the last deals we made before they handed us the keys to the car was to decline an additional warranty for $2300. I suppose if they really wanted to be jerks about it they could have tried to enforce their "2 months or 2000 miles" dealership warranty which would cover only 50% of the parts and labor to fix the car.

I've had at least one bad experience at just about every car dealer in town, I guess I shouldn't be suprised.

But since we got the car back it has been performing well. I'll keep my fingers crossed and an eye on the coolant level.

Karl
--
'95 960 Wagon 90K,'98 Subaru Outback Sport Wagon 85K, '94 Toyota Pickup 2WD 49K

If it makes you feel any better, that kind of radiator failure is not unique to Volvos. For at least the last 15 years the majority of cars have come equipped with plastic radiators. They go through an indeterminate number of thermal cycles and then suddenly fail, generally at the point of highest thermal stress, the intake. It's just luck of the draw, and it happens to Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, Chevys, Fords, BMWs, etc...
I just returned from a 600+ mile family trip with the wife and two kids in our 96 960 wagon, and it was wonderful. Relatively quite, very smooth, powerful, poised, comfortable and stress-free. A delight, really. As for price, it sounds a bit steep, but I've always maintained that a well cared for car is worth a premium because of the money it will save you in the long run. A bargain car that ends up needing thousands of dollars in repair because of a disinterested previous owner is no bargain.
Richard

Thanks for the reply, Richard.

I feel better already.

Karl

Prices vary widely depending on where in the US you live.

Here in Seattle the prices are at least 30% higher than in the south or upstate NY.

I think you'll be pleased... a new radiator is a good investment anyhow.

I guess so. I checked online with Kelley Blue Book and the avarage retail price they listed was 9500 bucks, however Edmunds was much less, at around 8700. Perhaps Iowa isn't the best place to find deals on Volvos . . . I don't know.

--
'95 960 Wagon 90K,'98 Subaru Outback Sport Wagon 85K, '94 Toyota Pickup 2WD 49K