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Hi guys,
I'm wiring up my wiper motor and switch in my 544 and have run into some difficulty. the wiper switch has letter designations (w,p,a,f) for its pinouts and the motor has numbers (31,31b,53a,53b). Can anyone tell me which letters correspond to which terminal numbers on the motor? Thanks a lot!!!!!
Rob
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This is what I have.
Ray J.
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Ray;
You have a 122 switch in your 544...so I wouldn't expect the Park function to be working...if it is, the mechanical system may be presenting so much load on the motor and that stops it (your lucky!)...otherwise it is supposed to stop by Dynamic Braking, and you don't get that with the 122 Switch...if your Park function is not working (no surprise there) I recommend you get and install the correct 544 Switch!
See: http://www.sw-em.com/544%20Wiper%20Info.htm#544_wiper_switch_information
Edit: I just noticed this is an ancient thread...you should probably start a new one, but info above is still valid.
Cheers
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I can maybe add a little to this from what I’ve figured ou over last few months.
My 544 (‘62, so 12-volt) also came to me with an Amazon wiper switch and I could not get it to work with the 544 wiper motor. I also wanted to add the Windshield Washer option to my car, but I learned that apparently all 544s came with the standard 2-position (on/off) switch, and if a customer ordered the washer option, that was a “dealer-install” kit, so a tank + pump, and a different 3-position switch was sent to the dealer for install.
I could not find one of those 3-position switches anywhere. Apparently they are quite rare.
Sources you can get a 544 wiper switch from are going to send you a 2-position switch because that was the “OEM”part, so to speak. So if you want the park to work and also washers, best option is a standard 2-pos switch with a push-button switch under the dash in easy reach. That is working great on my PV.
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I can't tell you what letter goes with what number, and I won't have a chance to crawl in behind the dash to find out till Sunday, but, in the meantime, check out www.type2.com/library/electrip/bosterm.htm. That will, at least, give you the meaning of the Bosch terminal designations, and might get you half-way there. Maybe you could figure out the nature of the switch terminals with an ohm meter. BTW, is that the original switch.? My 544 manual schematic shows the same numerical designations on the switch as on the wiper motor. Their sequence clockwise looking at the terninals is: 54d, p,54, 31, and 31b. 54d On the switch goes to 53 on the motor, 54 on the switch goes to 53a on the motor, and P on the switch goes to the winshield washer. Hope this helps. If you solve the problem by Sunday, let me know off-line, so I won't have to crawl under the dash.
Bob S.
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for the great link. That helps with a multitude of other future problems as well! Unfortunately, I don't know enough about how a wiper motor works, so even with the designation list, I'm a bit lost.
However, I really appreciate that you're willing to crawl under the dash of your car. Certainly not a fun task in a 544! It's just really frustrating for me as it is only thing keeping me from taking this car to the 20th anniversary VCOA meet in Vermont in a couple of weeks. Everything else is ready to go.
I can't say if the switch is original or not. It sounds like your diagram and mine are exactly alike.
I suppose if someone had a spare wiper switch from a 544, and would be willing to meter out the states of each terminal with each switch setting, that would work too, as I've metered the switch I have already.
Thanks for your help Bob!!!!!
Rob
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Rob,
All right, no way to get a peek at the back end of that switch without removing a zillion other bits, so I took the switch out. Guess what I found -- same Bosch terminal code numbers. Too bad. I guess your best option now is to start an intensive search for an orignal PV switch, or trial and error and hope you don't see smoke signals. Good luck.
Bob S.
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Bob,
I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate the effort you've put into trying to help me out. I hope I can return the favor someday. I will try the trial and error method and hope for the best. From the 122S diagram, I can tell for sure that "W" goes to the washer pump. From the link you forwarded, I can assume that 53a goes to "P" and 31 goes to ground. That leaves two, "A" and "F", and I have a couple of spare units in case the worst happens...
Thanks again, so much!!!
Rob
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Rob;
It sounds like you have a 122 switch...I wouldn't be surprised if the 544 wiper motor could be hooked up to and controlled by a 122 switch, I looked at the diiagrams, and unfortunately, the way the switch is drawn on the 544 wiring diagram (http://www.intelab.com/swem/544%20Wiring%20Diagram.jpg)
it is not immediately clear which wires correspond to the 122 motor wiring (http://www.intelab.com/swem/122S%20Wiring%20Diagram.jpg)
...perhaps someone else has actually done this, has notes, and can be of more help. Sorry, I have no 544 which I can inspect closer...
Cheers
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Hi Ron,
Thanks for the input! What you found with the diagrams is exactly what I've found. You can't get all the info from one diagram. My 544 diagram has the switch labelled with numbers, while the 122 diagram I have shows the switch with the letters but no coresponding terminal numbers on the wiper motor. Argh!
I'm trying to get this car ready for the VCOA meet, and this is the one last annoying thing to fix before I put the dashboard back in!
If anyone has a 544 that they could look at for me, I'd be eternally grateful!
Thanks!!!
Rob
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Rob;
I have also posted this problem to the (German) Volvoniacs Forum(http://www.volvoniacs.org/forum/thread.jsp?forum=31&thread=3879)...they have some very capable electrical specialists, and also some people who are also very experienced in 544s (I"m not)...perhaps between our two Forums (Fora?), we can come up with a solution of use to all. I've already learned from them, that the 544 never had a two speed wipermotor (stateside owners can please confirm this), and that the Green wire connects to a "brake" of some sort when the switch is in the OFF position...when ON it is disconnected (at the switch) from the Green wire...I was definately told it is not possible to control a 544 motor with a 122 switch! (...which doesn't mean its impossible, it just means this is not simple, and is going to be a bit of a challenge!)
I suggest you first try to determine the internal wiring of the 544 motor by taking it apart (obviously, as little as absolutely necessary) determining which wire needs power for the motor to operate, how the "park" switch is incorporated, what this "brake" is all about (it could just be a dynamic brake, effected by grounding armature), and posting this info...that would help a lot!
In the meantime, I have put all I have been able to definately glean from the manuals into one drawing. See: http://www.intelab.com/swem/wiper_circuits_544_122.jpg
What I can state with certainty, is that %44 terminals P and 54, are equal to 122 terminals W and P, respectively...but that is fairly obvious and of little help...
If anyone out there has a (numbered) 544 switch that they are willing to subject to an invasive, but nondestroying internal inspection, that would also be a big help.
Cheers from a very rainy Hartford (wipers on high speed today...intermittent setting useless!)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Charles Greenlaw
on
Sun Sep 28 10:41 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Here's some info gleaned in part from a German-published manual covering mid-60's vintage VW wipers and wiring terminal designations. The VW switch and setup for pre-'67, 6-volt VW's appears functionally the same as on 12-volt 544's as shown on the factory wiring diagram in my Scandcar CD of it. The VW manual explains the system rather well. And I got lots of experience in 1968 with the innards of the wiper motor on my 61 VW, which has a SWF-brand wiper motor visually matching the one in my late 544.
Features apparently in common: First, the wiper motor unit always has power connected to it, and always has a ground (earth) from it, regardless of the switch position. These are terminals 53a and 31 respectively, for the 544 motor. Second, there is a cam-operated switching feature internal to the wiper motor's geartrain that, when the wiper arms are in the parked position or nearly there, disconnects from the motor armature the power always supplied to terminal 53a. This provision is what keeps the wipers going after you switch off the wipers, until the arms are in the parked position. That internal, position-sensitive switch in the motor unit is part of what the so-called "brake" consists of.
The feature in common that gets the wiper motor going when you want it to, and keeps it running full-time regardless of arm position, is another wire (the blue one) from switch to motor that becomes live only when the switch is on, and the power is routed inside the motor unit so as to bypass that cam-operated parking switch. This blue wire on the 544 connects terminal 54d at the switch to 53 on the motor.
This leaves the green wire running between terminals 31b on both switch and motor, and the black wire running between terminals 31 on both switch and motor. The black wire is always connected to ground. The green wire is disconnected inside the switch when the switch is on, but when the switch is off AND when the wiper arms are also in the parked position, it grounds the other brush on the motor armature. I surmise that this helps the flywheel-like motor armature to stop quick so the wiper arms don't overshoot and get powered up again-- an electrical "brake". Otherwise what use would it have?
The internal switch failed on my 61 VW so as to short out the whole unit. The device includes a hard copper leaf spring that is pushed by the cam between two contacts-- the always live one when the arms are not parked, and to the 31b wire when the arms pass into the parked position. This copper leaf broke off and fell so as to blow the fuse and disable the wipers when I had to go from San Diego to El Centro (Cal.) on a rainy night, when the route was two lanes across the mountains. My later "repair" consisted of removing the copper leaf and doing without the self-parking feature, switching off as the wipers were a half-stroke above parked. Rob's 544 wiper motor could likewise be operated by a simple on-off, single pole, single throw switch, but the wiper arms would then coast to a stop like on my old VW.
I can't tell enough about the 120 car system from the wiring diagram alone to tell how the self-parking provisions compare with the 544 setup. It appears that the 120's have multi-speed wipers but the 544's clearly do not. I take it that "WS" feeds the washer and "P" is the power source terminal equivalent to 54 on the 544 switch. I reckon that "A" is connected to "F" internally in the switch when the switch is off. (This can be tested with an ohmmeter or other continuity tester.) If so, these two may be part of the park circuitry. Beyond that, I would test the 120 switch's terminals to find out what gets live, what grounds out, and what interconnects, in various positions. From the results maybe a partial equivalency to the 544 setup can be discovered and made to work.
Hope this helps some.
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Hello, Any idea why my wipers won't park on a 1964 544.
Thanks
Jon
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Jon;
Obviously a problem with Park function, but since this is a result of interaction of Switch and Motor Assy, I need more info on conditions...
Original Switch and components? 6 or 12V system (probably doesn't matter, but would be good to know)...any changes to wiring from OE?...
...and Symptoms!...do they run continuously without so much as a momentary drop in speed when powered...or is there a slight drop in speed, but then it picks up again? When turning OFF switch, do they stop wherever they may happen to be in the sweep?
See also: http://www.sw-em.com/544%20Wiper%20Info.htm
Good Hunting!
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Rob;
I just reviewed the 122 wiring in my posted composite wiring diagram again, and something was not right...it seems I had swapped the Black and Green notations...I will correct this shortly!
Cheers
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I put a 122 switch on my PV about a year and a half ago - I needed an extra click to turn on the washer. I can't recall it being much of an issue - I just hooked up the wires to the new switch using a multimeter to determine what the old switch the new one did in the various positions. Perhaps if I paused to ponder it I might have gotten worried, but I just charged ahead.
The switch I used has 3 clicks, however. On the 122 it was low, fast, and wash. On the PV it's low, low, and wash.
I grabbed the wiper mechanism off the 122 as well with the idea of adapting it to the PV to get two speeds, but they seemed to be so dissimilar that I dropped the idea.
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John;
If it worked, there not much arguing with success, but I do have to point out that 122 and 544 Wiper Switches (the entire Switch/Motor combination for that matter as you observed) are NOT compatible, because the 544 Switch switches chassis to the Motor Assy to allow Dynamic Braking, which definitely stops the motor after power is removed...as I just pointed out to Ray elsewhere in this thread, if your Motor and Wipers successfully stop at the Park position with the 122 Switch and therefore without Dy Br, it is likely because your mechanical system presents enough of a load on the motor to stop it, so you are lucky and it is working without Dy Br...if however you were to refurbish your mechanical system such that it has low drag, and you turn OFF your Switch, the motor might just sail past the Parking point and keep going...it wouldn't be the first time...
See also: http://www.sw-em.com/544%20Wiper%20Info.htm#Park_Function_with_Dy_Br
Edit: This is an ancient thread, so posters may not be seeing it...info however is still valid...if you are having related issues, its better to open a new thread after seeing old threads...
Cheers
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