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I saw this post on the Swedishbricks mailing list, and figured someone with a 960 might have some advice.
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:58:22 -0500
Subject: [SBricks] White Block Heads - HELP!
Looking for anyone who's ever successfully re-assembled the head on a
white block.
I'm struggling with the re-assembly of a B6304. The head itself is almost
trivial to put on and torque to spec. The problem is the "cam carrier" to
head connection. Tried to put it back together last night but could not
get the cam carrier to seat on the head with the cams in place. It seats
fine without the cams, although it's a tight fit requiring clamps to make
it seat. With the cams installed, I am concerned that the force necessary
to seat the cam carrier is excessive to the point of damaging some of the
soft aluminum bearing races.
Note that I am not using the special volvo tools to press the cam carrier
to the head. I am instead using six C clamps around the edge of the head
to apply force. This worked well in dry runs without the cams installed.
This method should work, but I may be missing something. Perhaps the
force must be applied in a more uniform manner rather than around the
edges? The rear (#6 cyl) of the exhaust cam side wouldn't seal to the
block. The front and intake side looked like they would seal with
continuing pressure, but to do so would have warped the cam carrier.
Because this is an interference engine, I've installed the camshafts in
close to their orientation (marked) as when they came out of the car. If
this orientation is not correct for some reason, I may be trying to push a
valve into a piston. How real is this scenario and is there any way to
know for sure?
I get the feeling that this shouldn't be a big deal to do. The green
books offer no specific information on this step other than to do it. Has
anyone out there actually worked a white block? I'm to the point of
calling a dealer or independant mechanic (both 50 miles away) to finish
the job. This, as you might imagine, is quite a blow to my pride (yeah,
I'll get over it, but...) and does call into question whethere we will
continue to buy white block equipped bricks. I do like the motor when
it's running, but have serious reservations about owning a car I can't
fix. If it's only a matter of buying the special tools ($300+ for the cam
carrier presses alone) this would still be cheaper than having someone
else finish the job. But without a good feeling that I can make it work
with the proper tools, I'm hesitant to plunk down that kind of cash.
You folks who have done the B234 heads: Was re-installation of the cam
carrier a problem? How did you force the carrier down onto the head while
keeping the camshaft in place and ensuring no valve interference?
Any body BTDT? I've got to get this car mobile again or get the wife a
replacement.
--Jeff
Despondant in Iowa
'92 965 - 153k miles - Headless
- alex
'85 244 Turbo
'84 245 Turbo
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posted by
someone claiming to be Aussie Mike
on
Thu Jul 31 00:56 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Jeff,
I have recently done this and I can tell you that your first mistake is to have Number 1 cylinder at Top Dead Centre. After doing this myself, I ended up with 2 bent exhaust valves on Number 6 cylinder. ATTENTION ALL THAT READ THIS. The proper mark timing mark on the crank is on the hub for the auxhiliary belt as we all should know (mistake I made) and you have the crankshaft 90 degrees too far advanced. Number 1 piston should be halfway up the bore approaching top dead centre. If you find the timing mark and set the cams correctly with their mark you will have no problem. Make sure you have the cam pulleys in the correct spot as they can go on 3 different ways and it will stuff up your motor quick. I am not 100% sure because I did something else first, but I am positive Number 2 cylinder is at Top Dead Centre with the correct timing marks aligned. There is a master key on the crank pulley and that corresponds to Top Dead Centre on Number 1.
How do I know This? I found out the hard way and bent 2 exhaust valves as stated. My dad thought I removed the exhaust cam pulley and put it back on 33% retarded. After changing the cam pulley and fitting the head and replaced the motor in the car, the car wouldn't start and I could see the air/fuel mix coming out of the air mass meter. Because it was a car I was repairing from accident damage for myself and I couldn't get it started, I had the car painted and when it returned I checked everything and still no luck. I had an 850 engine sitting on the shelf and I lined up the timing marks on that and saw that the master spline on the crankshaft was 90 degrees before the timing mark and then I saw the proper timing mark. I checked the 960 and saw the proper timing mark and new what was the problem. I removed the timing belt and had someone rotate the exhaust cam back while I was rotating the crankshaft back. I marked the camshaft pulley with a texta where is should have been and when they were in the right spot, I removed the exhaust cam wheel and rotated it back to where I originally had it. I refitted the Timing Belt and the motor fired straight away.
The crankshaft cambelt drive pulley and auxhiliary hub are identical to the 850 and have the same part number coincidentally. I believe that when they made the 5 and 6 cylinder motors they didn't bother changing the timing marks and thats why the number 1 cylinder is halfway up the bore. The easy way to check this is to line up the timing marks on a motor that runs and then check where number 1 and number 2 pistons are. I couldn't believe it but it is probably one of the only motors where number 1 isn't at top dead centre with the timing marks aligned.
Regards,
Michael
1981 264GLE, Nissan 3 litre, quad cam, 24 Valve, V6 Turbo, 5 speed manual, limited slip diff.
1992 960
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posted by
someone claiming to be w0ods
on
Wed Jul 30 16:21 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Many thanks to Alex for posting my plea to this forum.
I've read Tom Irwin's posts and have not found anything specific to the problem I am facing.
Thank you for the replies thus far. I do have the motor at TDC (1 tooth ahead actually, but will rotate it back) so I shouldn't have had any interference from the first attempt. The cams were at the same position relative to TDC. So next time, with my home-made cam holder/alignment tool, I'll set the motor back a tooth to exactly TDC. I wonder now if it the excessive resistance was caused by poor alignment of the cams in the journals because I didn't have them held tight to the carrier.
The sealant I tried to use is Lion brand gasket shellac. It looks like the same stuff I scraped off. Tried to order the Volvo specified part from TVK and they told me the part number (specified in the green books) didn't exist. I'm all ears if the stuff really is available. How much did the Volvo spec goo cost?
The head was surfaced and checked for warpage and cracks by a reputable shop. I've no concerns about its condition. Tappets were soaked in new oil prior to refitting. I'm trying to do this as close to the book as possible.
So looks like I've got to scrape the shellac off (from the last attempt) and fab up some crude tools and try again, presuming nothing's damaged from the last attempt.
For the record, I'm in Coggon Iowa, 25 mi. North of CR. I remember Lance and Steve Ringlee from their days on S'bricks. Our local Volvo dealer abandoned the marque about the time of the Ford buyout. Nearest dealer now is in Iowa City, 50 miles to the south. The advantages of living in the sticks are a 2800 sq. ft. shop and 3 acres to keep the odd parts car or two.
Background: The car's a '92 965, about 153k on it. There was evidence of emulsion on the dipstick indicating a slight leak somewhere. Then the alternator went out with a shorted diode so i decided to do both jobs. I've done timing belt replacement and rear main seal replacement on this beast, and both have gone well.
Enough for tonight. If you find Mr. Irwin, I'd like to hear his tales of unnatural acts with 960's. Sounds like my kind of man.
--Jeff
'92 965
'86 745
'80 244
'72 164
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That sealer does exist, I used it when I did my head. Is the stuff you are using orangish in color? The Volvl stuff does not harden until pressure is applied to it. I still have the roller with sealant on it and the sealant is still wet on it, that was 3 years ago.
Maybe ignorance is bliss, but I did the head without any special tools, when installing the head I made sure that the pistons were positioned in such a way that there would be clearance from the valves, so most of them were about half way down the bores. Now the point you are at, when I put the head cover on, the position of the cams did not matter because the pistons were down in the bores. And all I did was place the top on and gentle turn each bolt in about 1 turn, as the bolts took hold I increased it to about 2 turns. It took a little while but I thought that caution was needed. Then it was a matter of going back to all of the marks and setting the timing belt. While it would have easier to use all of the special tools. Some of these are warranted only because of the time savings.
Write with any questions.
DanR 94 964 228,000 miles
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DanR
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I remember a couple years ago someone on the board was doing a B6304 head rebuild and the consensus was you have to get the Volvo tool to reinstall the cams properly. Sorry...
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This simple idea has worked for me six times. MAKE SURE CRANKSHAFT V NOTCH ON FRONT PULLEY IS LINED UP TO MARK ON OIL PUMP! Now you can install the top of cylinder head. be sure that both mating surfaces are free from dirt and old gasket material. Apply gasket material (part no.1161059-3) in a small bead to the top surface. Then use a roller to spread the gasket material. (I use a wallpaper seam roller). Make sure that the gasket doen't ooze into the oil galleys, if it does use a match end to get out. Install the cams and cam seals doesn't matter how they are rotated. I use 20 bolts that are 15mm longer than the factory flange head bolts, also include a flat washer for each bolt. Space the bolts evenly over the area of the head. Tighten crosswise and end up in the middle. I run them down about two turns each untill I can get the factory bolts started, make sure you have at least 4 threads in the head before you start tightening the factory bolts. You want to make sure that the seals are in nice and straight and continue tightening the bolts and remove the longer one and replace with the factory bolts, torque in a even fashion end to the middle to 13 ft.lbs.. I hope that this is helpfull.
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I could maybe help this guy, but I don't know if it is me or what. I spent 10 minutes on that site and could not even find the area for questions. It seemed so hoakie. Maybe I am just so used to this site. This one so user friendly. Well thought out. Organized. It is great. Thanks again Jarrod.
DanR 94 964 228,000 miles
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DanR
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Where in Iowa are you? I'm in Ames.
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But Alex Z is not the brickster in deep caca. He picked this up in Swedishbricks from a desperate soul in Iowa. He'd have to tell you....
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John Shatzer, '97 V90 @ 98K
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Ah, yes: read more closely. Swedishbricks has not been touched, as a website, for three years or more. Their mailing list has declined to insignificance. They should put it to sleep gracefully.
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The last time I looked at Swedishbricks was like 3 years ago. No help whatsoever with 960s. Every post got the same reply: "buy a 240." Every once in a while someone would mix it up and say "buy a 740" or "buy a 940"...which would spark an entire debate about why the 240 is better than any car ever made. I was actually told I had to have an IQ of 50 to drive a Volvo "60" series. Well...I'm on my third "60" (264GLE, 764TI+, 965) and I have to say, you don't graduate from top-tier law schools with an IQ of 50. It was infuriating to have to justify my car every time I had a question...especially since I specifically chose NOT to buy a 240/740/940.
I think if you have a 240 and want to talk about how great your 240 is or be berated for having a difference of opinion...Swedishbricks is the place... If you want actual information...that place is here.
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This is the man to tell you...he's been intimate with a 960 in more ways than you'd like to hear.
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John Shatzer, '97 V90 @ 98K
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