posted by
someone claiming to be Jesse
on
Mon Apr 7 12:01 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Hi im just wondering what i could do to get more hp out of my 72 164.
I have recently blown the head gaskit so im going to have to take the thing appart and i thought while im in there i might considder an upgrade.
What can i do? oh its fuel injected.
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A good many replies have been recommending a zoomy cam. Increasing compression ratio by milling head will make a difference.Octane fuel may become a issue. Good engine performance has a lot to do with how will your engine breathes. A good valve job with balanced push rods new springs etc. etc. Porting and polish head intake and exhaust will allow your engine to breathe smoothly and if you got the $$$ a tuned exhaust header will once again allow her to breathe clean and free. Free flow exhaust attached to it will also get you a bit more h.p.Now getting the fuel injection to perform is another subject I will leave to the experts. I am a machinist who crewed for a few scca formula fords and super vs back in the day. All of the above requires bucks and time to balance jetting to your new set up.You must ask yourself if a 6 cylinder push rod cam engine is really worth the effort. Mike
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posted by
someone claiming to be cdu
on
Fri Apr 11 07:43 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Well, the motor's kinda crude and the transmission is positively
agricultural but the rest of the car is classy, fun to drive, roomy
and safe. I am convinced that I would have a hard time replacing
my 164 with another car of any vintage that would provide me with
all these features for less than $10,000 and likely it would cost me
lots more. Plus, although somewhat archaic in design, the volvo motors
are made with very high quality raw materials and good manufacturing
processes (valvetrain excluded). Plus, the execution of the archaic
design is relatively well thought out; the resulting lump is actually
not such a bad performer though heavy.
Ideally it would be trivial to put a modern DOHC I6 from toyota
in but that's not an economic option.
Fuel injection is actually not such a hard thing to put on these
motors because the hard stuff is already done by other people in the
form of volvo's fuel system and intake manifolds, existing heads with
injector holes in place, and aftermarket injection computers that can
be as little as $300us end to end if you do some of the work yourself.
All in all, I'd happily spend $3000 to $4000 to get a B30 in superior
operating condition, if I had a nice 164 to drop it into. And that $3000
is *only* $3000 for the machine work not including the parts or the
assembly...
Granted these are not nascar or even "I'm a crazy car collector and I
want my reproduction shelby cobra's connecting rods chromed" prices I'm
willing to spend, but still.
Where are you located?
chris
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posted by
someone claiming to be Jesse
on
Fri Apr 11 11:46 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Yeah i agree totaly.
My 164 may not be the fastest thing on the road but its full of class and thats the reason i bought it in the first place.
Last year some time i was going to sell her but i just couldnt bare to part with it, i gues im hooked.
Im located in Victoria Australia.
Jesse
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I'm really surprised that neither of the two august gentlemen who have
already posted replies mentioned a cam. All B30s of your age came with
the "C" cam. I was able to get one of the IPD street performance
cams for mine (probably one of the last ones they sold) and was VERY
pleased. Other possibilities would be a cam from KGTrimning in Sweden.
They list a lot on their website. If you can get a D or K cam from them
that would be pretty good and not have much of a negative impact on
driveability. If I were you I'd get an IPD lifter and pushrod set for it
also to keep the new cam in good shape.
The cam is probably the single item that will make the biggest difference.
--
George Downs, The "original" Walrus3, Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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They also have headers at KGTrimning, as well as triple DCOE manifolds (and the carbs too). Another intriguing item to be found in their catalog is a 92mm B30 headgasket - to allow the use of a set-and-a-half of B21 pistons for a big bore B30 - B33 if you will. I know from experience that the extra 3mm makes a real difference on a B20, I would imagine it would have a similar effect on a B30. More low end power immediately, more high end power if accompanied with breathing improvements (IHE). They also sell several flavors of modified B30 heads.
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posted by
someone claiming to be cdu
on
Mon Apr 7 21:20 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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I've called isky a couple times and they said they would be
perfectly happy to bang out a new VV61 or VV71 for you if you
gave them a cam with enough meat on it.
I've got two stock cams sitting on a shelf (one's got some
rust on it so I don't know if it is a runner) that I'm going
to send off some time.
I personally am probably going to go with the VV61 instead
of the VV71 just because I don't know how wild I want to make
my motor.
Once I replace the cam that's in my motor I should have another
regrindable cam since as far as I can tell it's not missing
any lobes (from watching valve lift, at least)
chris
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Go for the VV71 grind. I have one in my carbed 164 with B30E head
and it is GREAT and very tractable. I live in a pretty hilly area and
if the engine is cold I have to go to second to climb a steep hill (3.31
rear end)starting from a sharp corner but usually make it in 3rd.
Although low speed perf is good you feel a definite "come on" at about
2500-3000 and from there it climbs really fast.
--
George Downs, The "original" Walrus3, Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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posted by
someone claiming to be Rhys
on
Mon Apr 7 16:07 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Cams are a good thing George. Without phoning Sweden there is a limited choice. I used the B30E Euro cam in place of the NA B30F cam once - not the change you experienced with the IPD one that's for sure. Oh well, I needed a new one anyways.
"August"? Ye mun call me Laird laddie. I dinna ken "august".
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Following from the American Heritage Dictionary:
au·gust (ô-gúst“) adj. 1. Inspiring awe or admiration; majestic. 2. Venerable for reasons of age or high rank.
I recognize that Caledonian is not equal to American but much of the
American heritage is indeed Caledonian, both of which received considerable
input from Latin. Furthermore nothing is more American than Canada
(formerly CND) which comprises a major portion of north America, but
for unknown reasons does not contain America in its name.
(Is it possible that the "A"s inserted between CND are initials for
"America" rather than the customary "eh?" frequently heard above the parallel?)
Sorry, eh? Couldn't resist, Lad.
--
George Downs, The "original" Walrus3, Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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posted by
someone claiming to be Rhys
on
Tue Apr 8 07:43 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Not sorry at all George - always interesting. The things I learn on this board! It was a good shot - if my Prime Minister read that post perhaps we would be helping (as we should be) rather than standing on the sidelines. I'll forward it to him!
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I, too, am stunned. The B-30 was originally set up like a tug boat motor; you can put a fairly wild cam in it and still have PLENTY of bottom end.
Top end can get a little scary, though. 3 DCOEs? Don't go there.
As George says, see Sweden for cams.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Rhys
on
Mon Apr 7 14:01 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Take about .050 off the bottom of the head as long as it is off, and disconnect the vacuum retard to the distributor. Check the thickness first simply to ensure it hasn't been done before - Volvo specs will indicate within reason what the expected CR is at various thicknesses. It won't make it a rocket sled, but it will be quite a noticeable difference.
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Let me ask you this: Have you ever driven your 164, or another 164E, that was actually running like new? You might be very surprised how much power it has when it's tuned correctly and nothing is worn out.
Unless you intend to race the car competitively, the best thing you can do is give it a "better than stock" rebuild using stock parts, but with more accurate machining than Volvo could afford to do on a high-production basis. All the engineering for a very powerful motor was already done, and 90% of attempts to make changes to that result in less performance overall and/or cranky behavior.
it is possible to get a lot more power, but that requires re-engineering the motor, the intake system, the exhaust system, the fuel injection, and whatever else attaches to the motor. There are three or four people who know how to do the engineering end of that so you end up with what you want. It's not cheap and it takes about two years.
Unfortunately, they don't sell engineering or excellent machine work in catalogs, so the temptation to do something silly and expensive remains... been there, done that many times myself.
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