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B21F Sachs clutch 'horsepowerability'... 200 1979

posted by  pierre on  Sat Feb 1 14:20 CST 2003
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last visit: Fri Oct 10 10:49 CST 2014
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...In other words, how much HP can the Sachs clutch on the B21F hold up to?

And, ho!, hi all!

And thanks, definitely...
And merci beaucoup, bien sūr...








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    B21F Sachs clutch 'horsepowerability'... 200 1979

    posted by  dlot on  Sun Feb 2 03:48 CST 2003
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    last visit: Sat Nov 17 13:53 CST 2001
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    Hi Pierre,
    The stock normally aspirated clutch will usually take up to ten to twenty percent more power. If you are using a flat flywheel a early turbo 240 clutch
    is an upgrade. This clutch is rated for a 150lb ft of motor torque. If you need a strong clutch for a good price try checking out a Borg Warner Brute Power clutch. These are rated for 40 percent more torque than the original clutch they replace. That would mean the flat flywheel turbo clutch is good for over 200 ft lbs. That should hold for you.

    Dave 82 242ti 279k mi.








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      B21F Sachs clutch 'horsepowerability'... 200 1979

      posted by  pierre on  Sun Feb 2 04:58 CST 2003
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      last visit: Fri Oct 10 10:49 CST 2014
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      Thanks for your reply, Dave...

      I probably have access to a non-intercooled 1984 Turbo clutch. Is that the one you mean for an upgrade? I'll check into the Brute Power clutch when my financial means allow me to though.

      I am putting in a mildly lightened flat flywheel on a slightly modified Canadian B21F, from which I expect approx. 140 HP instead of it's original 111 HP.

      Many thanks...








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        B21F Sachs clutch 'horsepowerability'... 200 1979

        posted by  pierre on  Sun Feb 2 05:54 CST 2003
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        last visit: Fri Oct 10 10:49 CST 2014
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        Well, to answer my own question, I checked the part numbers for the NA B21F clutch and for the non-intercooled B21FT clutch. They are the same.

        Furthermore, in the archives, I read of people using the NA/non-intercooled B21FT clutch on the B21FTi with good results.

        So, I'll keep my fingers crossed and just re-use what I have.

        I hope this helps someone else.

        Thanks again...








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          B21F Sachs clutch 'horsepowerability'... 200 1979

          posted by  dlot on  Sun Feb 2 12:41 CST 2003
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          last visit: Sat Nov 17 13:53 CST 2001
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          Hey Pierre,
          The non intercooled turbo clutch is for the same flat flywheel. That should
          be fine for a B21 pumped up to 140hp. The non intercooled B21FT turbo makes 150ft.lbs. of torque. The 84 clutch is good for your car as long as it's the cluthc for the flat flywheel. I recommend for your future clutch to get the recessed flywheel and buy the brute power clutch for that. It's rated upto 280ft.lbs of torque and the bigger diameter will make less or the same pedal effort for higher clamping. You can use the recessed flywheel from several
          models. Factory intercooled 240 series, 84-88 or 89? turbo 740 series with M46
          trans. Also the flywheel for 87-93? M47 trans 240 series I believe has the same part number as the 740 turbo flywheel. So all these should work for a clutch improvement.
          Wish you well.
          Dave 82 242ti








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            B21F Sachs clutch 'horsepowerability'... 200 1979

            uid 13809's pic
            posted by  Alex Z on  Sun Feb 2 22:22 CST 2003
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            last visit: Thu Oct 3 04:30 CST 2013
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            I've got one of each. The sedan was factory intercooled and has the bigger clutch, the wagon was probably not factory intercooled (I really should call the original owner here..), and has what I assume to be the smaller flywheel.

            I very much prefer the lighter clutch action of the wagon. Combined with the wicked fast idle and working power steering, city driving is much much easier in the wagon.

            I haven't tried one, but Centerforce makes some high perf clutches to fit the smaller flywheel (dunno about the bigger ones). There was a recent discussion about this on the turbobricks list.. and the cost difference between a clutch job with the CF clutch and one with a factory clutch conversion to the bigger flywheel came out to about $100. There were comments to the effect of a heavier flywheel causing slower rise of boost (something I'm seeing for sure in the wagon v sedan, but I'm not sure if I should attribute it to poor maintenance).

            If the CF clutch kit were able to maintain the feel of the stock clutch with a smaller flywheel.. I'd save my clams and go that route.

            Then again, IPD lists different kits for the either of the 240 turbos and all of the NA 240s. FCP Groton lists one clutch for the B21 powered M46's and one for the B21FT/B23/B230 powered M46's, and one for the B21FT-IBS powered M46's. All are listed as Sachs kits. It sure makes you wonder.

            - alex

            '85 244 Turbo
            '84 245 Turbo








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              B21F Sachs clutch 'horsepowerability'... 200 1979

              posted by  dlot on  Mon Feb 3 12:07 CST 2003
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              last visit: Sat Nov 17 13:53 CST 2001
              [RELATED]

              Hi Pierre,
              That''s great! Nice to have choices isn't it? I'm about to comment on an issue here that in my experience is totally misunderstood. You are making a normally aspirated performance motor. You will need rpms to make lots of hp. However, in my real world experience with turbo motors the boost response is better with a heavy flywheel. Look at it this way. A turbo is load sensitive. In order to make boost the engine must get a load it and increase the exhaust gas velocity.
              A heavier flywheel will load the motor sooner so it makes boost sooner. The heavier flywheel will cause the motor to rev slower and probably take away a few top end rpms. The motor will have a stronger low and midrange boost response. I have two turbos. A 82 with the flat flywheel and a factory intercooled car with the heavy flywheel and clutch. The mid range and low range response is much better in the 84. Anyway for your performance application you probably want the lighter flywheel since you want high rpm performance and want to get there soon. Wish you well.

              Dave 82 242ti







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