posted by
someone claiming to be dadstoys2
on
Mon Dec 30 15:51 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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What is a safe range for boost psi. I mainly mean about where am I to be conserned with the stock head letting go? Head gaskets? What point should the head be O-ringed and studded? Is this even a problem under 15 or 16lbs of boost. I know some things just wont take that without lots of work.
I know right now I have another post about my fuel pump, but this is next project.
Later,
Rich
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Hi Rich...
I run mine at 13psi, it has a really good low mile motor, and runs on 98 octane (freely available at the pump here in NZ).
I have yet to hurt the motor, and I give it plenty.
I have however broken 2 trannies in the last 3 months, and only now have realized the need for some serious upgrades in that respect, currently being performed.
Be warned....
Cheers Mike
--
1989 744ti, 51k kms, 13psi, boost gauge, turbo timer, exhaust mods, airbox/induction mods, rear spoiler - kiwis fly !!
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posted by
someone claiming to be b21ft
on
Tue Dec 31 02:16 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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I have two 87 745Tis.Daily driver with Mitsu turbo running 8 psi spiking up to 10 psi.224K miles had a new "head job" about 10K miles ago.The other with Garrett turbo and late style exhaust manifold,runs 10psi spiking up to 13psi.The motor was rebult about 80K miles ago.Here in California the highest octane available is 91 and I wonder if that is enough although I have not had any problems yet.The first thing I would do with any turbo car get a good Boost gauge and install it right away.Also many knock sensors are overtorqued.Volvo calls for only 8 pounds of torque. Other than that follow Philip Bradley's advice.I found him to be very knowledgeable when it comes to Volvo turbos and he can back everything up.I learned a lot from reading his posts or from his responses directly to me.Read Philip's articles on the Turbobrick's site.Beware.This turbo stuff is like cancer.It will spread and most times is incurable.Good luck.George
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posted by
someone claiming to be dadstoys2
on
Tue Dec 31 15:44 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Well Thanks Philip & everyone else. This not my first turbo car. But I am greatful to learn some of the weeker point to this motor. I am aware of the smaller con rods, which can be this motors death. I am still trying to learn the limits of the ignition sys and fuel sys. Am looking to upgrade both. I have been doing alot of looking for aftermarket parts. Not too many suppliers... But I have found a few. Now the head gasket was "supposed to " of been done. who knows for sure. Timming belt should of been too(but I plan to replace anyway) I do question this. I am just shocked that someone did not replace or repair the normal bad wireing harness. I have replaced some already, but there are still more to do(this is first before any exaust or boost increase) I will besure to put a real boost gauge too. I previously owned an 87 Conquest TSI and I did learn that those gauges are not acurate at all. My factory gauge said 8-9 the actual was 13psi. Sure do miss that car.....
Basically I was not trying to sound like some kid who just wanted to max out the boost that the turbo can push. I was really trying to learn at what point do things on these motors start to break, so that I can stay under in a safe region. I'll do upgrades to save my ass but want to learn what breaks and where.
Thanks everyone,
Rich
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posted by
someone claiming to be dadstoys2
on
Tue Dec 31 15:43 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Well Thanks Philip & everyone else. This not my first turbo car. But I am greatful to learn some of the weeker point to this motor. I am aware of the smaller con rods, which can be this motors death. I am still trying to learn the limits of the ignition sys and fuel sys. Am looking to upgrade both. I have been doing alot of looking for aftermarket parts. Not too many suppliers... But I have found a few. Now the head gasket was "supposed to " of been done. who knows for sure. Timming belt should of been too(but I plan to replace anyway) I do question this. I am just shocked that someone did not replace or repair the normal bad wireing harness. I have replaced some already, but there are still more to do(this is first before any exaust or boost increase) I will besure to put a real boost gauge too. I previously owned an 89 Conquest TSI and I did learn that those gauges are not acurate at all. My factory gauge said 8-9 the actual was 13psi. Sure do miss that car.....
Basically I was not trying to sound like some kid who just wanted to max out the boost that the turbo can push. I was really trying to learn at what point do things on these motors start to break, so that I can stay under in a safe region. I'll do upgrades to save my ass but want to learn what breaks and where.
Thanks everyone,
Rich
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posted by
someone claiming to be philip bradley
on
Wed Jan 1 03:13 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Dave Barton sells a calibrated gauge face that is cheap and accurate (as the factory gauge is good quality - it just happens to lack gradation). Seach for Dave Barton and Volvo and you should turn up his website. Or you can go aftermarket.
Your fuel system uses 300 cc/min injectors at 43 psi, with a 1:1 regulator to maintain this under boost. You can run higher pressure through an FMU, run an additional injector kit, use an Apexi SAFC and larger injectors, lower base pressure and use slightly larger injectors, run race gas, or use an aftermarket EMS. 300 cc/min is about 29.5 lb/hr. At best, each will support 60 hp, though 55 hp is a safer number for a turbo motor. They will run wide open and can do so reasonably safely since they are low impedence high quality Bosch.
Your ignition system is a cam driven distributor system with a Bosch knock sensor ignition that has 9.8 degrees of retard authority. That is enough for stock boost or 50% more, but probably not 100% more boost. The timing curve runs on top of the base timing, which is adjustable on 84-89 740/760/780T. You can lower base timing and lose response. Better is to use a boost retard ignition and run more initial advance and then take it out under load. Best is a programmable ignition system, either separate or part of an aftermarket EMS.
No chips are available for the 84-89 USA turbo cars. You may be able to have your ECU modified to take a chip, but I don't think it is simple or cheap. BSR in Sweden can help you. You need two chips, however, one for ignition and one for fuel. The ignition one is easier to convert on an older car like yours. Converting to newer Bosch ECU like on 90-95 USA turbos will allow easier chipping, but you still need two chips and the conversion of the fuel ECU is not a simple job. I would not bother with chips.
Philip
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posted by
someone claiming to be dadstoys2
on
Wed Jan 1 19:15 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Thanks Philip, Now thats a good post on these motors. Really gave me alot to work with with that post. I apreciate all of the info. I will investigate my options.
Do you know who makes a good aftermarket ingition system for these, at a reasonable price?
Thanks again,
Rich
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posted by
someone claiming to be philip bradley
on
Tue Dec 31 01:48 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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The stock headgasket can hold a fair amount of boost in a properly managed engine. In an improperly managed engine, it cannot hold as much. You can put a better head gasket in an improperly managed engine and it will hold and you can break other components instead, like pistons or rods, for example. You can buy better internal parts and put those in an improperly managed engine and they will hold longer before something lets go.
Your best bet is not to exceed the limitations of your stock engine management or, if you do, overcome those limitations. Your motor is the weakest B230FT made. Several improvements were made over the years, but your motor has none of them. I would not push it as far as you seem inclined to.
Determine the limits of your fuel system and do not exceed them. Determine the limits of your ignition and do not exceed them. I could give you this information, but it would be better for you to learn it yourself since it appears you are determined to play with high boost, but have only a limited knowledge of what is required. The kids at Turbobricks can fill you in on the details, but be careful whose advice you follow there as many of them write about stuff they have no experience with. Find the ones who have actually done what they write about on an engine similar to yours in terms of the version of B230FT and level of mods, and who have tested what they advise for at least a year with good results (many of the kids have only been driving for a couple of years), and listen to those people. They are the ones who can help you.
My advice is to make sure your engine is in perfect condition. Do a service, tune up, and compression leak down test. Send your 15 year old injectors out for a cleaning. If all is perfect, on an otherwise stock motor running premium gas, 11 psi is safe and you can experiment with 12-14 psi if you know what you are doing. More is not advisable. Do not be surprised if your 15 year old headgasket lets go. It probably will soon anyway. Its a great opportunity to rebuild the head, which probably needs it.
Philip Bradley
Good luck.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Al
on
Tue Dec 31 07:16 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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I have seen some pretty outlandish things posted on that board. One said he ran 14 psi with 87 octane gas with no problems. Hell I couldn't tell you how many of those guys post that they are running 20 psi on pump gas. Like you said Philip most havent been driving more than 2 or three years and this is their first car. I remember a guy that lived near me about two years ago that bought his first Turbo Volvo. He was about 20 and listened to those guys over there. Well with in 90 days the car was gone. He trashed the tranny and the engine started to smoke and make bad noises. But hey those guys over their know everything about hopping up a car. Gee I remember when I wasn't old enough to drink I also thought I knew EVERYTHING about cars.
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posted by
someone claiming to be philip bradley
on
Wed Jan 1 03:02 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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To the credit of the young Turbobricks members, however, some of them are now doing interesting projects that look promising. I look forward to reading about the results. We need more people doing stuff, whether young or old, and whether the projects are simple or advanced and successful or unsuccessful. I think those of us that follow Volvo B21/23/230 turbo performance will be learning a lot in 2003.
I have my own hotrod motor project underway, and will be sharing the experiences and results over time. I figure it will take me a year to sort it out, but it should be running in a week or two.
Philip
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posted by
someone claiming to be Al
on
Mon Dec 30 16:40 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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I would say 12psi is safe. Max that I would go with my car is 14 psi. You do realize that you will have to run only 92-93 octane.
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posted by
someone claiming to be dadstoys2
on
Mon Dec 30 18:08 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Yes I am well aware of the high octane requirements. Thats not an issue. My only concern is popping the head.
Rich
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With an 87 motor, you should be wary of bending the smaller con rods as well, in addition to the grab bag of problems a 15 year old motor can present.
-Paul Demeo
1990 780T (14psi and bunch of other stuff...)
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