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Here is my tale of woe.
I have a 240 GL, 81 with about 220k miles on it. Drove great until a few months ago. I would notice that I could barely push the engine above 3000-3500 rpm's without getting a kind of stuttering effect from it. So I change out the fuel filter, and this works nicely for about two weeks, then it goes back to its old "chug-a-lug" behavor. It slowly and slowly gets worser until one day I can feel the car about to go out on me. I drive into this neighborhood, and the car slowly dies out on me. I wait a minute, turn it back on, it stays on maybe 30 seconds, then dies out. This repeats for about 2 minutes, same dying out process after comming on.
So I have it towed home. I change out the filter again just to make sure, but that did not remedy the issue. So I'm looking at my other options now. The car has been sitting for about a month, because I haven't been able to buy a pump for it. Also, the relay has been changed just to make sure it was not it. Do you think its the pump ? I'm pretty sure it is not the intank because 6 months earlier, the car was serviced, and the fuel system had been replaced.
My questions are these:
What are my options ?
How do you diagnose fuel pump probs ?
How can I change one out ?
Do you have one that you can send to me (no joke) ?
Thank you in advance
K
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posted by
someone claiming to be mechanic
on
Mon Apr 15 04:00 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Someone posted the theory behind the 2 pump operation a while back.
This is not a good suggestion, but you could fill up the gasetank and see if the car runs. I say not good because if it doesnt work and the intank pump is bad you have a real heavy tank on your hands.
The post read that the prepump helps supply gas to the main pump when the tank gets down to half full. Supposedly the car will run fine as long as it is more than half tank.
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The tank already is full already, with high octane gas :-/
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posted by
someone claiming to be mechanic
on
Mon Apr 15 04:01 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Oh, I forgot to say this is if you suspect the intank pump as the problem.
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Does you pump make any funny noises now? A whine, groan, or little choppy sounds? My 242Ti has developed the same problem as your car. My fuel pump is making some funky sounds though so it needs to be replaced.
I'm not sure where you live, around here we have Advance Auto parts, I called them up, they have a Carter fuel pump with a lifetime warranty for $118, much cheaper than the bosch, unless you order it from fcpgroton at $125. These are the cheapest prices I could find out there for new pumps.
Also on my wagon (used to be diesel) I have a drain plug on the bottom of my gas tank, not sure if other 240s have the same plug or not, when I took my tank out I just opened the plug and drained it.
good luck
elijah
--
'84 302 wagon '82 242ti
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Your car has K-jet injection. That injection system is very sensitive to dirt (and water) in the fuel, and also to fuel pressure. Ironically, slightly high pressure cause it to lean out -- and the opposite is also true.
Fuel pressure is controlled by the fuel pressure regulator, which is buried inside the fuel distributor. Unfortunately, the fuel distributor is buried inder the intake manifold. (I'd rather change a blower motor than the fuel distributor.) Another cause of high pressure is a blocked fuel return line.
You might have water in the gas (BTDT). If so, the easiest remedy is to pull out the gas tank sending unit and arrange a syphon or suction gizmo, with a long, skinny "probe" pipe, to reach through the gas to the tank bottom and suck out the water. I've done this three times on my various 245s. If you get too much water, adding "Drigas" only makes it worse.
If you have the sending unit out, you can swap the tank pump (if needed) and also install a new 2" Neoprene hose.
"...and the fuel system had been replaced..."
That is either a vague statement or else you spent a fortune. Specifically what do you mean by "the fuel system"...?
"How do you diagnose fuel pump probs ?"
Put a fuel pressure gauge on the system and watch the pressure as you drive the car and as it stalls out. You might find the pressure going high (as it did on my now-dead '82).
"Do you have one that you can send to me (no joke) ?"
Sure, several of my old bombers (rusting away) have pumps. Come get a pump -- but I'm not climbing under one, particularly when you don't absolutely know that you need one.....
--
Don Foster (near Cape Cod, MA)
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I normally would be quick to switch out the fuel tank except for the fact that its filled with 92 super unleaded. When I said the fuel system was replaced months and months ago, this is what was done.
Replaced the fuel tank
Replaced fuel lines
Replaced in-tank pump
Exhaust replaced
Now I am not sure if the fuel pump under the car was replaced as well or not. One thing that leads me to believe that it is the fuel pump is that I cannot hear it make that hmmmzz sound when you put the key into the ignition and turn it to the II position.
Also could you be a bit more specific when you say a fuel pressure gauge ?
I'd be willing to come to general location of residence, but I live in Houston TX and so space/time does not permit me to do so. I can pay shipping for the pump, just can't afford to make a $100 dollar mistake at the moment....
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I normally would be quick to switch out the fuel tank except for the fact that its filled with 92 super unleaded. When I said the fuel system was replaced months and months ago, this is what was done.
Replaced the fuel tank
Replaced fuel lines
Replaced in-tank pump
Exhaust replaced
Now I am not sure if the fuel pump under the car was replaced as well or not. One thing that leads me to believe that it is the fuel pump is that I cannot hear it make that hmmmzz sound when you put the key into the ignition and turn it to the II position.
Also could you be a bit more specific when you say a fuel pressure gauge ?
I'd be willing to come to general location of residence, but I live in Houston TX and so space/time does not permit me to do so. I can pay shipping for the pump, just can't afford to make a $100 dollar mistake at the moment....
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"Replaced the fuel tank"
Ouch.
"Replaced fuel lines"
Ouch.
"Replaced in-tank pump"
Ouch.
Why all this stuff? Very unusual to replace a tank, and normally the only fuel line problem is a rotted return line.
"...is that I cannot hear it make that hmmmzz sound when you put the key into the ignition and turn it to the II position..."
The pump will only run when the relay receives a pulse from the ignition primary, such as when cranking or running. However, sometimes the ignition module will produce a single pulse when it's first powered -- and this will trigger the pump for ~1/2 second, or so. But not always.
Does the fuel pump run when you crank it? (And do you have spark? No spark equals no fuel pump....)
"...a bit more specific when you say a fuel pressure gauge ?"
There's a fuel system pressure gauge that you can connect at the control pressure regulator. It has a two- or three-way valve that allows you to measure different aspects of the system pressure. One measurement is the fuel supply pressure. Another measurement is the fuel control pressure. If either of these is significantly out of spec, your engine won't run worth a damn -- or won't run at all. (BTDT)
"...so space/time does not permit me to do so..."
Got it. Unfortunately, time does not permit to do it, either.
BTW -- you can bypass all the fuel pump relay nonsense and check the pump -- even with the key off. Jump fuse #5 to #7 -- this should power the pump directly. Try it and see if the pump runs. Try starting it with the jumper in place. This is a diagnostic ONLY (because you bypass a fuse and several safety features). But this trick, using a paper clip, got me home one day when my fuel pump relay died.
--
Don Foster (near Cape Cod, MA)
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The car had sat dormant for over a year, rest is history.
I've got spark, just no pump action. When it dies out, what are the symptons ? Do they match what I've said so far (sluggish performance, chug-a-lug feel, and finally car dies, and only stays on for a matter of seconds) ?
Do you know of any of your volvo driving friends who might have spare pumps, stock or aftermarket, that I could use to make 120% sure it is the pump ?
I do not currently have access to that fuel pressure deal you were speaking of earlier.
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posted by
someone claiming to be john in vt
on
Sun Apr 14 03:41 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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Don ...totally off topic....@ CG base in boston this weekend..went out the front gate to get some coffee last night...found myself on FOSTER ST....did not
know that you had been so honored in this city....j.
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Ahh, where Hanover ends at Commercial. I hope you tried out some of the local restaurants... And Mike's has the world's best pastries!
The street's not named for me, but it's not an uncommon name. My wife said something like that when we walked by it, too. The CG base is a five-minute walk from our apartment. Would love to find a parking spot there -- our house is an hour away....
--
Don Foster (near Cape Cod, MA)
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posted by
someone claiming to be mechanic
on
Sun Apr 14 02:43 CST 2002 [ RELATED]
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You didnt say if the new filter was clogged?
I have seen this before where there was something in the gastank that when the pump started it would eventually get sucked to the screen and stop the flow of gas. When the car was shut off, it would fall off the screen and float around in the tank.
Did you hear the sound of the pumps straining or spinning in a freespin?
You might have to remove the gastank and check it if all else fails.
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No the new filter was just fine. I cannot hear the fuel pump make that "hmmzzzzzz" sound when it starts.
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