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Rear seal and shuddering clutch questions. 120-130 1967

posted by  someone claiming to be mario on  Thu Feb 28 05:12 CST 2002 [RELATED]

Often times when I begin driving my car, there will be a pulsing shuddering action in the drivetrain and rear suspension when I let out the clutch from a stop. The severity of this problem seems to be variable, and can be partly avoided by quickly releasing the clutch when starting out, but sometimes it is not an issue at all. So I figured it must be a problem with the clutch or maybe driveshaft and went about taking it apart.

When taking out the bolts hold the starter, and clutch slave, they were heavily coated with oil. The flywheel looks dry on the clutch side, but has a coating of oil on the seal side. The clutch seemed fairly dry, but the bellhousing seemed to be well coated with oil.

I have taken pictures and posted them on the web, they can be found at:
http://home.attbi.com/~tremendousm/

I am going to go ahead and take the flywheel into the shop, and I am going to get the driveshaft checked out also. All the bushings in this car are new.

Questions:
1. Is this probably a leaking rear seal causing the clutch to slip?
2. How hard is it to change the rear seal (B20)?
3. Is there anything I am overlooking?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

mario m.







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    Rear seal and shuddering clutch questions. 120-130 1967

    posted by  Danny on  Thu Feb 28 11:57 CST 2002
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    last visit: Mon Oct 6 22:01 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    1) Replace the seal and housing with the neoprene seal and housing. John's previously mentioned link describes this.
    2)It may be that oil slung off the front of the flywheel had dripped down from the top of the bellhousing and contaminated the front and the clutch disk. Maybe. It may also be that the center support of the driveshaft is worn out. Mine's a 67 , and so you have the later, rubber support surrounding the bearing on the driveshaft. The bearing might be worn as well. Then there's the 3 U joints. Do you get ANY play at the U joints? If so replace them. Last would be transmission support rubber, and the rear axle bushings, which if worn, allow the axle to actually rotate downward when initally loaded by the driveshaft transferring drive to the rear wheels.








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    Rear seal and shuddering clutch questions. 120-130 1965

    posted by  SebCH on  Thu Feb 28 10:17 CST 2002
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    last visit: Fri Feb 19 06:25 CST 2010
    [RELATED]

    Are the felt rings really that bad? I mean are they leaking from the minute you start your engine after rebuild, or do they just wear sooner than rubber improved ones? My B20 is now out of the car. Would love not to have to pull it out after 200 miles. Should I change?
    Thanks Séb








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      Rear seal and shuddering clutch questions. 120-130 1965

      posted by  matt b on  Thu Feb 28 14:10 CST 2002
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      last visit: Tue Oct 14 16:33 CST 2014
      [RELATED]

      No...the felt seals ain't that bad if you have a good engine. The felt seal really isn't much of a seal...it's more of just a oil catcher. Put there to slow the outward flow of oil enough such that the oil falls back down inside the engine rather than out the back. But, if your engine is worn (or not perfectly rebuilt), or you have a clogged crankcase breather, you can get crankcase pressure (blowby). It is usually that that forces the oil out the rear felt seal. The newer neoprene seal design will solve that problem as it actually provides an airtight seal through which no oil can flow.

      Yes....if you have your engine out, and especially if you have the flywheel off, upgrade the rear seal. Unless, of course, you live in a rental house and don't care about oil spots from time to time....

      But its a bit of a pain even with the engine in the car. Were I you, I'd do the upgrade. Keep in mind, you don't have to go to IPD. If you find a '74 or '75 B20(or somewheres around there), it will already have the neoprene seal housing...and that housing will bolt up to any B18 (I think) or B20 to replace the felt housing. And yes, all that the other folks said detailing centering and gaskets is true...but if you engine is out, now is the time to do it...

      -Matt








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    Rear seal and shuddering clutch questions. 120-130 1967

    posted by  JohnMc on  Thu Feb 28 06:09 CST 2002
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    last visit: Thu Oct 23 07:42 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    Qute easy.... once the flywheel is out! The seal resides in a little aluminum housing with a couple of bolts along the bottom to seal it to the oil pan, and 6 (or so) bolts fastening it to the block.

    Depending on the year it may have an old style felt seal. If so IPD sells modified covers that utilize a modern neoprene seal. Its well worth the cost to upgrade a felt seal.

    EDIT: Just looked at the pics you took. It looks like you definately have the felt seal (around the crank I see a snap ring holding in a large metal washer instead of a rubber seal). Here's a link to IPD upgraded housing:

    http://www.ipdusa.com/ProductsList.aspx?subSubCategoryID=420

    While you are at it, replace that pilot bearing in the end of the crank. No time like the present!







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      Changing housings. 120-130 1967

      posted by  someone claiming to be mario on  Thu Feb 28 12:13 CST 2002 [RELATED]

      So it is agreed that the prudent course of action would be to replace the rear main seal and housing. Luckily, my old engine has the upgraded housing. I put it in a couple of years ago before my that engine started to smoke. But I remember that when I replaced the housing last that I had to do some hokey oil pan gasket splice. Is that the best way to go about it this time? Or should I figure out some clever way of dropping the pan while I have the tranny off and the rear of the engine lowered and braced against the firewall with a piece of 1x2?

      Do those oilpan gasket splices hold? I couldn't tell on my old engine since it was always leaking oil from everywhere.

      Parts/Service list:
      - Flywheel to the shop
      - Driveshaft to the shop
      - New neoprene rear oil seal
      - New rear oil seal housing gasket
      - New oilpan gasket
      - New pilot bearing
      - New clutch and throw out bearing

      And hopefully that will fix it. The rear bushings are all new. Just looking for some tips on that housing upgrade.








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        Center the housing for longer life - Is there a special tool for this? 120-130 1967

        posted by  Danny on  Thu Feb 28 12:51 CST 2002
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        last visit: Mon Oct 6 22:01 CST 2014
        [RELATED]

        I did this to my B18 3 years ago, under the car, and didn't pull the pan. No fun under the car. I spliced in a piece of pan gasket, and it didn't leak when I was done. But I was unhappy about about the centering of the whole deal on the crank, and when I swapped B20 in this past September, and tore the B18 down, I noticed that the rear seal was wearing a lot more on the bottom, meaning that, not having centered it on the crank (without the pressure of the pan and gasket, and goo lifting the seal housing) meant that it wore. I remember seeing (brickboard or IPD classifieds a year or so ago) some sort of sleeve set for centering both front and rear seal housings, but think that those may have been only for felt type seal setups. When I rebuilt my B20, the pan was off when I installed the seal/housings and so it was easier to get them centered, but still only by eye/feel. Maybe somebody else knows about a smart, accurate way to get the seal/housing dead on. It is critical to longevity of the "improved" seal.







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