posted by
someone claiming to be Genaro Lopez
on
Sat Sep 29 16:16 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Hola bricksters:
Just bought a 93 245 Station Wagon..it is the only one that comes with R134 standard...all others before had R12 standard. The cooling on this one is less than desirable in our South Texas heat. should I change back to R12?
thanks, Genaro.
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posted by
someone claiming to be chris herbst
on
Sun Sep 30 04:32 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Hey Genaro.
Don't change the refrigerant; it shouldn't be necessary.
Simple stuff first:
First, go to Wal-Mart or somewhere and get a vent temperature gauge. Get the kind that has actual degrees marked on it by increments of 2 deg. Not one of the green/yellow/red gauges. Those don't tell you anything.
Ride around with that thing in the car and determine what your vent temps are, at cruise and idle. Remember what the ambient temps are when you get those readings. Then do some 5-minute jobs to see what you get.
First, BC had a great point that a lot of 240s never seem to shut the heater control valve all the way off. It's almost a standard failure on the 240 HVAC system.
Second, get under the hood and put a jumper wire in the pressure switch for the electric cooling fan. Tape everything up tight to keep moisture out, and from now on, the fan will come on anytime the A/C system comes on. That will drop your temps a few degrees and keep the system from getting overloaded.
Actually, just make sure the fan works to begin with!
Spray out the A/C condenser of all bugs, dirt, and debris. That might help a lot too, depending on how fouled it is.
More involved steps:
Install a Smart VOV (variable orifice valve) in the expansion pipe which is on the passenger frame rail in the engine compartment. I've had tremendous success with that little part, and for $30, you can't beat it.
Make utterly SURE that your system has exactly the proper amount of refrigerant. That means either EXACTLY or just a little LESS, especially in hot climates. R134 just gets overloaded when it's over pressure.
There are other aspects of the A/C system that are more in depth, but these are the easiest. Please feel free to contact me on or off the board for more information. I get 38-42 degrees (cold) air from my 91's converted system.
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posted by
someone claiming to be dennis
on
Sun Sep 30 18:44 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Hey Chris, see many of your posts and know you have lots of experience with bricks. I have R-12.
Can you please tell me what the VOV (variable expansion valve) does and where I can purchase one? I'm in central florida and had the rear windows tinted this summer, made a HUGE difference. On recirc, the AC is cold enough that i can't direct it toward me, it is too cold to keep my hands on the steering wheel!
Did you install your VOV yourself?
tks
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posted by
someone claiming to be chris herbst
on
Mon Oct 1 16:39 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Yes, I installed it myself. Have another one waiting to go into the 940 next year, and maybe the 740, because it has a 134 conversion already. The 740 is ice cold anyway, so I might not bother, but interestingly, the 940, with factory 134, isn't that cool.
You don't need the "orifice tube remover" either. The OT is easily accessible in the expansion pipe joint.
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posted by
someone claiming to be chris herbst
on
Mon Oct 1 16:33 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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The VOV varies the size of what used to be a fixed orifice tube, shrinking the orifice at idle, and increasing it at higher speeds. This translates into better cooling and better overall system efficiency.
You can buy the VOV almost at any parts store, although in my searches, many of them have no idea what it is, despite having the part in stock. Some are better than others. CarQuest seemed to know something about it, but other places stock them too.
The experiment in my 91 240 had excellent results. In hot, humid S. Florida, you might not get quite the big temp difference, but will likely see a big humidity difference, which still will help. In 95 degree heat this summer, I didn't find it necessary to use the recirc setting, even without tinted windows. It did get warm up somewhat at idle speed, but on mixed driving, it was still a solid 40 degrees.
There is a great overview of the VOV here:
VOV technical information-3 parts
Window tinting is a fantastic remedy to poor cooling. Additionally, putting a light colored dash mat down will make a huge difference. I cut one from an old sail on a whim (white dacron) and it brought down the interior temps unbelievably. The black dashboard is like a huge solar panel.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Rick Schockner
on
Sun Sep 30 02:16 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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I remember reading posts from Bubba and Chris Herbst about r134 cooling. They were getting temps.in the low 40's with r134. They added (I think) a variable orifice valve which allowed the system to respond much more efficiently.
Try contacting them. Good pluck.
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posted by
someone claiming to be BC
on
Sat Sep 29 17:57 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Como le va, Genero -
Well, that's all my Spanish, so you're safe from more. In my experience with 240's, they all had the valve that controls hot water into the heater core adjusted so that even when you push the control fully cold, the valve isn't quite closed.
Supposedly that's to keep a little water circulating so as not to get clogged. BUT - it makes a difference to us Texans, even in Houston.
On my 1979, 1983, and 1984 I adjusted the valve, and it helped a lot. Once done, it becomes important to open the valve and move some coolant through every now and then. I do it when starting each Monday morning, with a cold start the coolant is not yet heated up.
I am sounding iffy because I don't know if the year you have has the same thing as my older models.
Good Luck,
Bob
:>)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Greg Wong
on
Sat Sep 29 18:38 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Bob, from checking in the IPD and RPR catalogs, it looks like they went to the new style valve in 92. This one does shut all the way, if it is adjusted properly. I retrofitted the new type valve into my 84, and I love it, much better than the old one. The action is very smooth, and the heat regulation is very controllable.
But then again, I have never used an old style valve that was working as it was meant to, so I don't know if that one can be smooth or not. Do you know if when new, do these valves have that "bump" in the action near the cold end?
Greg
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posted by
someone claiming to be B.C.
on
Sun Sep 30 16:06 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Greg -
I knew they had switched to a better valve, just didn't know when. Thanks. If any of mine go kaput I'll know what years to check in the salvage yards.
When I have adjusted the valves in the 1984, 1983, etc., the bit of lever travel actually flexed to cable b/c I set it to close when the lever had about 1/16 inch yet to move. It does feel like a little bump.
Round here the heater is important about 20 days a year, then it's a/c or melt. Well, actually I have found that on a day with high humidity but not high temperature (85 degrees, 85%) running the a/c with just a tiny bit of heater on makes incredibly dry air. Takes some tweaking to get the adjustments right but it's neat when done.
I'll try a new model when I replace the valve in my 1986. It is either all or nothing at all. (If you recognize that song title, you're dating yourself).
Thanks for the info.
Regards,
Bob
:>)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Greg Wong
on
Sun Sep 30 17:25 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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> I'll try a new model when I replace the valve in my 1986. It is
> either all or nothing at all. (If you recognize that song title,
> you're dating yourself).
Dude! I've been singing that song in my head for the past 20 minutes! Maybe even a little out loud. I'm 25 years old, and I don't know what the original sounds like, but there is a performer named Diana Krall that does covers of a lot of great tunes, and that is one of them. She is a killer, man, if you haven't listened to her, you should check her out. My dad told me that her newest CD got bad reviews, but I haven't heard it yet.
Greg
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posted by
someone claiming to be B.C.
on
Sun Sep 30 17:40 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Greg -
Obviously I was unaware of the re-make. I "hear" the song, done by Sinatra, back in the 50"s or so, and I think the origins are in the 30's.
Diana Krall is a name not familiar to me. Is there a way that I could hear that song as she does it? Some sort of download?
VENI, VIDI, VOLVI There. That's the required Volvo content. Ask me about the Muslim GI drinking with his squad after liberating Paris.
Regards,
Bob
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posted by
someone claiming to be BC
on
Sat Sep 29 18:12 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Genaro -
Go with the tinting windows, too.
A couple more ideas:
1) When you park during the day leave all the windows down about 1/4 inch - and leave nothing visible that might attract burglars. Put one of those silver reflecting thingies over the windshield.
2) When you start up, turn the fan up to #4 for about 5 seconds to blow all the hot air out of the ductwork. Then leave it on #1 until the A/C has been running 2 to 5 minutes. This allows the system to remove the heat from the metal in the evaporator core more quickly. When you turn up the fan speed the system will do much better at pulling the heat out of the air.
3) When you get into a hot car, open all four doors at the same time - if time permits. I open the driver's door, then walk around the car opening all the others, walk around a second time closing them. Even a little breeze will blow away the batch of heated air that is inside the car - you'll feel it blowing out.
4) If 3) doesn't work as there is no breeze at all, start driving with the LH windows closed and both RH ones open about 1/2 way. This creates a circular air motion that helps get the heated air removed. I survived a Houston summer with a busted blower motor using this trick and being very diligent about finding shaded parking.
Good Luck,
Bob
:>)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Bradley Burland
on
Sat Sep 29 16:39 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Genaro: Hola from Cleveland! I've owned a gaggle of 240 series bricks over the years and have found that the air conditioning is one of the 'weak links' of the vehicle. The short answer is to recharge the system with whatever the thing calls for. If it's a 134 system, use that. You CANNOT just evacuate the system and recharge it with R12 and expect good preformance, despite what the do it yourself kits from the local Auto Zone might say. There's a lot more to airconditioning science than will be found on the back of a $29.95 kit. For one thing, unless you're about to start swapping the compressor, or at least open the thing up and replace the little check orfice with the correct size, you're wasting your time and money. The cost is prohibitive, and unless you know the correct diameter, can find one that fits, and you don't bollix up the whole compressor, the results are generally not satisfactory, anyway. My suggestion is to spend about $100 or so and get the windows tinted, if you haven't already done so. You'd be amazed at the difference even a 10% tint makes in interior temp, especially with the rolling greenhouse you now own. If you have the tint, then I'm sorry to say that, like me, you have to live with it. Use the recirculate button a lot....and think cool thoughts.
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posted by
someone claiming to be svedysh
on
Sat Sep 29 17:44 CST 2001 [ RELATED]
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Amazing, I have heard the same thing, about the cooling systems on the older bricks. Funny though, I have had mine for 10 yrs and jsut have had to add two cans for the duration of the R12, The A/C wasn't putting out like it should,b ut when the radiator came time for replacement all of that changed, it blows ice!!, I do have the window's tinted but nonetheless the A/C has worked absolutely fantastic in this Muggy Southwestern Louisiana Heat. I was going to convert over but have decided to run the R12 till it no longer blows or teh compressor gives way, then I've been told to do it all, (Evaporator, Drier, compressor, lines and all) to do it right.
Good Luck...
David
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