Hee hee hee...

I always cite my parents as perfect examples. They drive everywhere in their 90s RWD volvos.

One of their friends is on their SECOND Grand Cherokee (lemon buyback).

They started buying older RWD VOlvos now too, after spending almost $45k on (part of) 2 grand cherokees over the last year and a half. Because they could have FIVE 940s for what they paid for their one pile of crap.

That hurts, doesn't it? Knowing that you'll NEVER get that extra 35,000 back? Sure, you can MAKE another 35k but you'll never get the stuff you already spent back again.

Not to say I don't like modern cars. I might move up to a later 90s 850 in a year or so and see how it goes. I really don't care... I am just too cheap to buy a brand new car, that's all.

In fact, I'm currently looking for a 93-94 Lexus LS400. They're nice too.

Well, I'd go as new as maybe 97 if the price was good.

Guess I'm just 8 or 10 years behind the times. Anyway, you could do worse than older Volvos, that's for sure.

Coming from driving old British sports cars, my '71 142E is a Rolls Royce!

Paid for, DIY repairs, $100 for a 5-year 'collector car' license, and only has to pass 'visible smoke at idle' smog test. The front seats are still some of the most comfortable ones in the World that I can afford!

Already converted to unleaded...someday they may make me put a cat on it, or I will convert it to LPG - so what?

Safety? Hell, I ride mototcycles. My Volvo is a warm and fuzzy safe cocoon.

Our cars were once grassey hills. No one needs to dig up another hill and make me a new car. I'll keep this one.

You started your post:

"As the owner of two older ('86 245 and '83 244) 200 series Volvos...."

What you are fooling yourself about is that those are not older cars,

they are NEWER cars. The older ones are the early 444s and previous

that never got imported to the US. I finally gave up on the middle-

aged 444s and 544s in 1971 and got myself a modern Volvo - a '63 122

4-door sedan.

Because of long distance traveling in a borrowed car around the time

of Esther's accident I finally decided to buy the borrowed car after

I put 6000 miles on it, but it turned into a Volvo (a 92 Taurus) but

I still have 3 real Volvos, the 66 122 wagon, the 69 164 and the

Yellow Peril ('73 145E). Far as I'm concerned when they went back

to metric they left a lot of us behind. See Matt's website,

www.metricsucks.com

Heck, I havn't even fooled myself into thinking that a late 80s 240 is an old obsolete car....and I havn't fooled myself into thinking that my 71 145 is a classic yet. They are all just damn good cars, and they don't make 'em like they used to.

For my money, I want a car that I can feel confident to take anywhere knowing that if it breaks anywhere, I can probably get it back on the road...of course, they rarely break...they jst sort of wear out.

Nope...not me. I don't plan to ever buy a car that I can't fix myself. And I'd rather be in a wreck in my 30 year old Volvo than a stinkin' honda anyday.

-Matt B

71 145s

65 1800s

53 Jaguar

other junk

We have three kids and a fully paid for Volvo wagon. With the money we are NOT paying monthly for a leased minivan or payments on a new car that would even come close to the Volvo's capacity, comfort, handling, and reliability, we do a lot of other things:

1. Save for kids' university (Canadian RESP deposits attract a gov't contribution)

2. Buy a well-bred dog, and have the cats and dog well looked after.

3. Eat out quite often

4. Eat salmon, lobster, Alberta beef, etc. quite often

5. Do home reno and decoration with the best materials

6. Buy whatever bulbs/perennials/annuals/trees we like

7. Make frequent book store or toy store trips with something for everybody

8. Don't question the value of kitchen equipment or tool purchases

9. Buy motors for the boy's rockets

10. Buy beading and art supplies for the girls

11. Buy premium beer when we want it

The list goes on and on. As long as your Volvo is reliable, economical, and structurally sound, you will be rich. A new car is nice I guess (I wouldn't know myself) but makes you poor.

Old but reliable---even my new 93 is the same. Parts fit it that date back to the first 700's produced. It is mine and I can play and rarely make fatal errors with it. Try that on the new FWD jobs, that is if you can get your hand in there to do anything. Son-in-law and daughter each have 98 S70's----nice, but just dont have the personality.

And, those RWD turbos can sure be surprising to a few folks!

Guess I will keep fooling myself.

dick

"...the real condition of these vehicles...in reasonable condition and mechanically sound...they are also 15 and 18 years old..."

True. How old is the Brooklyn Bridge and how many people depend on it -- risk their lives on it -- every day to get to work?

My point is that mere age (or youth) is not always a valid measure of value or utility. Would you prefer a new Yugo or a good running, rust free '73 ES?

"...it's been nearly a decade since the last 240 rolled off the assembly line at Gothenburg. Surely a great deal of progess has been made since 1993..."

Industry has learned how to make stuff even lighter, thinner, cheaper. More thin plastic replacing thick plastic, more thick plastic replacing aluminum, more aluminum replacing steel. Smaller, lighter, thinner, cheaper spare tires.

No more head gaskets -- a head job you could once do in your garage now requires a clean room. Super expensive special tools needed for what was once a backyard job (timing belt, for example).

"...any reason to hold on to these cars, other than sentimental value?"

Oh, let's see. My '86 245 with 260k miles starts EVERY morning, gets me to work EVERY morning, gets me home EVERY night, hauls all kinds crapola all over on the weekends.... Is warm, comfortable, safe, and reliable in the winter slush 'n snow..... Always stops on a dime when I hit the brakes..... I don't really worry about a few door dings.... Decent service literature is available.... Almost anyone can repair one, and parts are available at reasonable prices from reasonable vendors..... You don't need a Ph.D. in Applied Volvology to change the oil.....

And best of all, It's mine and it's paid for...

I think that I just remembered why...

The seats in that damn thing are so comfortable (great for long drives!) that I've thought about having wheels put on one for the den.

The wagon, with the back seat folded, can carry all kinds of crap.

The suspension, with poly bushings and good shocks 'n struts, is excellent. Very firm, but not overly harsh, and yet extremely comfortable on the highway at 75mph. Excellent feedback, something that you don't experience much of on FWD cars.

It doesn't look like a Sardine can on wheels.

The M46...a manual tranny that has decent ratios and doesn't require constant "rowing" in traffic. What a notion!

I can work on it myself, without a garage worth of expensive specialty tools.

It looks funky, but in a cool kind of way.

It will always be "something different"......

i wonder the exact same thing...

as a boy of 18 yrs... there must be nothing that could get me less chicks than an 88 volvo with yellow headlights and badly sunburned paint, added to the poor cooling in a car i have to park in the sun... its always gotten me to my classes... although it did blow a water pump the 1st day i drove it, the day after i bought it, in a violent ordeal...

from the glovebox falling off to rattles and no a/c, ive taken this car VERY far from the poor state it was in... but now my interior is IPD'd and i may drop 1000 into the paint, and this very question is on my mind... is the old volvo worth it? its not toyota reliable, its hot, its decisivly unsexy, and on my youthfull priority list - i cant even beat a 3 cylinder metro in a race... so 1000 for paint on a 2000 dollar car? i do love it, and sentiment may be what keeps me in it...

but am i just fooling myself? do i read articles and look at pictures of rebuilt 400 horse 240's b/c i like them or b/c i cant afford payments on a 2001 celica? i do like RWD, FwD was introdced for cheaper production, and as i explain to my rice-sporting friends, "if FWD has all this great control and handling, its a wonder we dont see more FWD racecars?" wheres the FWD nascar and indy? awe... if anyone was doing research on how to run cars faster and handle better, i think they would be all over it... where is my FWD porsche?

But besides my disgust for the plastic car, sometimes i sit back and wonder if having a solid steal car is so important? does it matter in the long run? and i also wonder if a hot, ugly, chipped up, SLOW - RWD car is better than a civic? in all honesty its not...

i suppose i have been fooling myself, i should give in and buy a new car, get a 10 year warranty, take it to the shop for oil changes, and put fog lights and a 900000 watt speaker system in it... it would be alot easier on me... but am i going to? no ;)

if anything, i may have to drive rice, park the volvo, and one day, if my college pays off, tear it down to the frame and put it back together the way I WANT IT :)

i think were all fooling ourselves... to be honest, and i perfectly understand any of you taking offense, but it doesnt matter b/c we are all in this game, and even through rebuilt transmissions and periodic catastrophies, all over the course of a few months, im here to stay! :D

Ill admit I have "riced out" my own volvo, but when ever I go somewhere and someone asks me ..hey what car do you drive, and I say yeah that one volvo. They always know. I mean shoot I was at sac raceway which is many miles away from home talking to some guy that I had never seen before and he said he knew my car, thought it was interesting and said someone told him I was running 15lbs of boost. Yep i am all N/A. Hmmm. Thats why I drive the volvo. Its different and when lowered it looks mean as hell.

Adam