I need an alternative!

1800ES in storage for 2 years but 2000 miles since march 2001. (6 weeks)

Had a problem with relay but now that I fixed that , I’m attacking the rough idle and misfiring at speed.

I have inspected everything I can think of.

This is not in order!

I have 4 new injectors.

The timing has been adjusted to 12degrees BTDC with vacuum removed.

I tested the compression and it’s steady at 150psi

I looked at the valve springs for cracks. Nope!

I re-gapped the valves.

I changed the distributor completely. (points and condensor)

I then changed the points

Then the cap and the rotor (twice)

The plugs (one was loose)

The plug wires

The throttle switch (twice)

The Computer

I have looked at the wiring and anchored it better than new (zip ties)

I still have errant firings. At “cruise” it tugs along with slight jerks then resumes to tug. It has power when accelerating but this might mask the misfires.

I would have thought that I would have stumbled over the problem or at least change the behavior by now. Nope!

I still don’t know if it’s in the Injection or the spark system but I could sure use some new ideas.

What if an injector is defective? It idles fine but at 700 rpm.

What would it do if I had air in the fuel delivery system? (I don’t see fuel dripping or on the ground)

On my drive to work this morning, it worked fine (cold)..... at lunch it went back to the "tug"(warm).

Can someone give me an alternative?

Thanks

Christopher

It had to be simple! I checked out everything you guys told me to and still had a problem. So the last resort was, since I have 2 1800ES's is to rape the good running one '73 until the replaced component changed makes a difference. So just before dark last night I took off the 4 brand new injectors from the '72 and changed them with the good running '73 rack. There you go! The problems moved over to the once good running engine'73. and the poor running one '72 now hasen't a problem. Go figure! I'm guessing the injectors are defective or the wrong part#. Can't imagine what else ......cause the fuel pressure regulator measures 28psi when connected to the cold start hose.

Am I missing something?

Thanks for the advise but I don't think I'm out of the woods until I get both running fine.

Christopher

/// Did you have two posts? I remembered something else, the ground for the injectors is one bolt, steel in the aluminum intake manifold.

I don't know for sure but... Did you unscrew the ground bolts and take rail and all to the other car? Is there actually a problem with the other car now?

Yes, I post here too often. Some problems are related and I have 6 volvo's to take care of. The present problem is in the 1972 and 1973 1800ES's. Poor running and I searched just about everything except the solution. After checking out in the (standard way) the components and wiring I included the Injectors (4 new Bosch), injector grounds, injector connection plugs, water temp sensor, points, plugs, plug wires, coil, fuel pressure regulator, trigger control, relays, and grounds (engine and battery), air temp sensor and the computer I still had a problem of a poor idle and a certain "miss" at speed. Plenty of acceleration but I've owned the car for 20 years and it wasn't running right. I've driven it everyday and logged 2,100 miles since bringing it out for the spring in March. Finally, I took a non standard approach and attacked a fine running 1973 1800ES and butchered the components to discover the problem. Usually I don't want to compromise a good car to fix the bad one because "If it ain't broke..." and ...screw with it and you will break it. The next desperate act was to rip off the injector rack from the 1973 (that included the 4 injectors and a pressure regulator) and put the whole thing on the '72 and see if anything changed. It did! Now the conclusion is that the injectors are the wrong part number and have too weak a spray or they are defective or clogged. I have 2 inline fuel filters on each car and the fuel flow under acceleration is fine. The '73 now has the problems. I have a weber conversion but I'm just about ready to put on a pair of SU's and use the good FI parts as a source of replacement parts for one 1800ES. I have a 544 for the winter with a B20 and have developed a competence with the SU's and prefer them to the weber and am beginning to think the replacement cost of components for the FI is too high to support 2 28 year old cars. Fuel Pump-$300 Injectors--$100 ea Sensors--$??? ea The toasted Wiring harness $350. Why not put a $30 electric fuel pump (low pressure NAPA) and the SU's, cover the injection ports, change the linkage and be done with the FI? I've had 20 years with no problems but perhaps that's all I can expect. The next 20 might be filled with difficult diagnosis and expensive replacement parts! Whew! I feel better now. Yep, those SU's are simple and reliable ( I really like to tinker)and then I'd have all the backup parts I need to support ONE fuel injected 1800es for the next 20 years. Is this a reasonable idea or am I having a bad day and need a nap?

Thanks for letting me vent!

Christopher

/// In a long ago post I commented that Volvo injectors were three volt rated. One comment that got was that volvo injectors were 12 volt rated. I know that your 72 and 73 are 3 volt because I have a 73 144. Are some of the injectors different voltages? Could that be the problem?

I found a board members site that said later 200's had 3 volt injectors. I have an 83 but I never checked it.

I don't know... does anybody have some help on this one? It sounds reasonable to me. If a 12 volt injector gets only 3 volts it might be "weak". causing stumbling and rough idle but when asked for more and longer duration... it has enough to fool me.

D-Jetronic runs 3 volts to the injectors. If you had a '12 volt' injector it probably wouldnt work at all, instead of occasionally failing to work. Have you isolated the particular injector yet or does it seem like a general problem with all the injectors. Or is it something with the pressure regulator? Maybe it occasionally sticks open or shut. Try swapping injectors from rail to rail and see where the problem goes/stays.

John Mc.

PS You are quite lucky to have two cars to debug this incredibly obscure fault.

The symptoms are now on the '73 and worse than when on the '72. Upon the swap of racks, the '72 immediately ran fine. These are the original injectors from when I bought the car in 1980 and have used ever since. When I bought new injectors, I put them on this '72 and moved the originals to the '73 where it ran fine with these originals from the '72. The "new" injector rack went on the '72 and progressively went bad ( splashy idle and high speed intermittant miss). I swapped the originals back to the '72 and the idle became great and no miss at any speed. The "new" injectors went on the '73 and I drove 5 miles and it ran poorly with a steady miss that night but it got around ok with one obviously dead cylinder. Next morning, only one or two cylinders would fire and I had to nurse it home after less than a mile. Now I get only one or two clicks from the injectors over the range of the trigger contacts (not 20). I'm thinking they are clogged or have debris in them and will blow them out with cleaner and air this weekend. Is there a better way to clear these injectors? How can I only get "one or two" clicks now? I only changed the injectors and didn't touch the wiring or the grounds. I am still thinking about those SU's and creating an ample parts supply.

I did it! Could't tolerate the problems and have given plenty of time trying. So, after dinner on Saturday I began ..... ran the car that night. Finished it on Sunday morning and couldn't be happier. Smooth acceleration, steady idle, great power, Smoooooth! SU's are fine. I have a Weber downdraught 2 barrel but it was too weak until the second barrel opened and I know SU's. Bought them on Ebay and bought a $32.00 NAPA electric fuel pump, some linkage, and a accelerator pedal from a coupe, I was happy. Had to drill a 1" hole in the firewall for the pedal assy to go through and bolt it up. Soft plugs for the injector ports... fini.

Still have a 1800ES with FI but now I have plenty of parts and tons of experience for the next time. And if it even thinks about having a problem.... BANG... there will be a Weber on there so fast it won't know what hit him!

Christopher

'60 544 B20, O/D, 4wheel disc, SU's, 1800ES front & rear sub frame,

'72 1800ES green, O/D, Was FI now Not!

'73 1800ES green, auto, Still FI but ???

'86 244GL Yellow

'87 245DL Yellow

'01 V70 Silver

What can you get for a whole FI system (or 2) on Ebay? I mean distributor, wiring harness, relays, fuel pump, injectors, sensors, ECU, Gas Pedal... the works...humh?

Christopher:

The good news is--you are very close to solving this! It seems clear that the problem is in the injector rack assembly at some point. that limits it to the piping of the rack, the fuel lines running from the rack to the injectors, or the injectors themselves. I don't recall that you mention replacing the fuel lines, but if you didn't they could be rotting on the inside, sending debris in to clog the injectors. If gas sat in the piping, you could have had a minor varnish build-up that washed loose with new gas and affected the injectors (highly unlikely, I would think). You could, though, have trash from a deteriorating fuel line in the piping. If all those areas are clean, the injectors could be the wrong part, as you suggest, or could have faulty seals. If you haven't already done so, I would disassemble the rack and be sure you have good flow through all the lines, replacing any fuel lines that are still old. Then do a flow test on the injectors (if you can get the engine to run, that is!). I followed a procedure that I read on this board (I think) a long time ago. Pull one injector and replace it with a stopper, being sure it is not small enough to get sucked into the cylinder. Start the engine and observe the spray from the injector. Measure the fluid output of the injector. Be very careful--spraying gas and a hot engine are an interesting combination! The spray should be symmetrical and the output should be very close across all four injectors. You may then want to compare the output to that of one of your known good injectors. My car sat for 10 years before I bought it. The injectors didn't work. I pulled them, put light pressure on the needle that stops the flow to break it loose from being varnished shut, then soaked the injectors in gas. Replaced the seals and they have worked fine for 2 years now.

Good luck!

When I had a 73 142e (same D-Jet system) I had similar symptoms to what you describe and worse to the point where the car would die inexplicably, and just the same, would later sometimes then fire up.

After exhaustive fault-finding (not by me but an experienced mechanic) it turned out to very simply be a bad fuel pump ground at the body.

Good luck.

Coil is ok? The dist sender is new or ok? Cap is correct on dist? My dads D jet had the wrong cap once and it gave wierd driveability probs. Sounds electrical to me, but??? Anyone you know that can hook a scope to it to check firing etc?

dick

I just spoke to a person who mentioned the "AirTemperature Sensor" on the intake between the air filter and the intake manifold. It looks fine and I've never touched it before. The wiring looks OK. Does anybody know how to test or bypass this or a good source for this sending unit?

Christopher

I have had some of the same problems with my 1972 1800. I would also check the contact breakers. Mine were slighty pitted and dirty and new set made a difference. Also, check your throttle switch make sure it is adjusted correctly and not worn. And finally, difffuctly in starting my car was a bad watertemperature sensor.

steve

Air intake sensor

3000-4500 ohms @10 c

2000-3000 ohms @20 c

1400-2200 ohms @30 c

1000-1400 ohms @+40c

water temp sensor

380-500 ohms @10c

280-340 ohms @20c

180-240 ohms @30c

115-180 ohms 40+c

water temp sensor has the biggest effect on the functionality (in terms of the two temp sensors)

Have you checked the manifold pressure sensor right inner front wing connected to inlet with a hose It should have 90 ohms between pins 7 and 15, (the primary winding.) Between pins 8 and 10 it should have 350 ohms (the secondary winding), all other combinations should be infinite

Regards

I also have had a similar problem. Get all new (3) sensor connectors. VOLPAR 1-800-258-4545.