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Moisture in dipstick tube 200 1983

I know I've brought this up before- but this is a problem that will not go away !!

For the last 5 K miles, I've had sludge inside the dipstick tube- obviously water in there somewhere. I'm confused, however, because there is never any of it at the top of the motor at the filler cap (even when it is running) and the oil changes out clean. I've had the motor flushed 3 times now, and am seriously thinking about ripping the head off to see what the hell is going on. A friend keeps saying " don't pull the head, it's just condensation" but I have never had this problem before, and having just rebuilt the turbo, I'm a little concerened about that muck floating through the engine. Any comments as to what could be causing this ?

Thanks in advance









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    Re: Moisture in dipstick tube 200 1983

    First are you letting it warm up to full operating temp before driving, especially on short trips?

    I have to chastise customers about this regularly. especially in cold weather , when you shut the engine off condensation forms inside on the metal, when you start it cold , as it warms up the moisture vapourizes, the vapour finds its way through the crancase breather and is burned out through the combustion chamber ( you notice that water dripping from the exhaust pipe on start up and for the first few miles?) .

    The problem is if you don't let it warm up to operating temp before shutting down again on a consistant basis, the moisture cannot be expelled and begins to mix with oil vapour and forms a milky sludge (usually on the dipstick and the filler cap ) that looks a lot like the mess you get with a blown head gasket except it is localized and when you drain the oil you don't see any signs of moisture in the drain oil.

    If you do let it warm up , might want to instsall a hotter thermostat or if in a really cold climate, take a lesson from the truck drivers and rig a winter front over the radiator.

    Good luck--Robert








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      Re: Moisture in dipstick tube 200 1983

      > First are you letting it warm up to full operating temp before

      > driving, especially on short trips?

      The best way to warm up a car is to drive it, this will minimise wear and tear while cold

      > I have to chastise customers about this regularly. especially in cold

      > weather , when you shut the engine off condensation forms inside on

      > the metal, when you start it cold , as it warms up the moisture

      > vapourizes, the vapour finds its way through the crancase breather

      > and is burned out through the combustion chamber ( you notice that

      > water dripping from the exhaust pipe on start up and for the first

      > few miles?) .

      Water is a by-product of combustion, you don't need any condensation in order to get water dripping out of your exhaust. A properly functioning PCV system (flame trap and hoses etc) will minimise any vapours in the crankcase etc and so minimise condensation.

      > The problem is if you don't let it warm up to operating temp before

      > shutting down again on a consistant basis, the moisture cannot be

      > expelled and begins to mix with oil vapour and forms a milky sludge

      > (usually on the dipstick and the filler cap ) that looks a lot like

      > the mess you get with a blown head gasket except it is localized and

      > when you drain the oil you don't see any signs of moisture in the

      > drain oil.

      True enough. Short trips are bad news for any car.

      > or if in a really cold climate, take a lesson from the truck drivers

      > and rig a winter front over the radiator.

      What good would this do? Except make you very prone to overheating.








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        Re: Moisture in dipstick tube 200 1983

        Driving a car while cold is not a very good way to warm it up , it is however as the governments, enviromentalists, and car manufacturers of the world decided a number of years ago , a great way to conserve fuel and reduce air borne pollutants (in this it has done a stellar job, in the last 20-25 years this recomendation has probably saved us an ocean of fuel).

        However the automotive engine ( basically unchanged in the last century ) is still made of metal and still a slave to the laws of physics.

        When manufacturing or rebuilding an engine , the specifications allow for heat expansion (operating temp). When running cold many of the internal parts are slapping around in there until the heat expansion brings them up to proper fit ( if parts were cut to fit cold, the engine would sieze upon warm up).

        Driving on a cold engine can lead to increased piston skirt wear, cracked pistons, out of round bores (sometimes requiring drastic over-bores at rebuild time hence shortining the service life of the block).

        If using regular oil , when cold it has a tendency to foam. When put under load this foaming oil has a reduced film strength , and can allow metal to metal contact , in extreme cases it can lead to spun bearings.

        While driving with a "light foot" until it reaches operating temp, as my manual says is a nice idea for some , in reality many people have to stand on it just to get out of their driveway with fenders intact.

        True a proper functioning system will minimize water vapours in the engine, but if it never gets warm long enough to burn them off, thats where the sludge comes in. It's cumulative and once it reaches the sludgy form it tends not to burn off as well.

        While I wouldnt use a winter front (ok bra with grill restriction for you sports car fans:-) in moderate climate, but in extreme cold a cover on the front (with a permanant opening in the area in front of the fan clutch) is a perfectly acceptable way of speeding warm up, maintaining under hood temp while making stops about town, and preventing radiator freeze up. In extreme cold climates,( no I'm not talking Bakersfield California cold, more like Billings Montana cold:-) this arrangement properly used (yes pop it off on the hot days) will not lead to overheating.

        -----Robert









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    Re: Moisture in dipstick tube 200 1983

    What are your driving habits? slow and cold, or hot and hard?

    How about a leak down test? How about a coolant sniffer test? How about a cooling system pressure test? How about a coolant UV dye test?







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