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GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

posted by  someone claiming to be chris ulrich on  Sun Dec 3 14:19 CST 2000 [RELATED]

Any tricks or catches when it comes to transplanting a GT

gauge cluster into a 164? I just pulled a GT cluster from

a 72 164 in a salvage yard and hope to use it to replace the

standard one that's there right now. Is the wiring there

already for the tachometer? (lucky me -- even the milage is

about the same between them, though the GT cluster has only

five digits so it might have x00,000 more or less miles than

my car has).

Thanks!

chris







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    Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

    posted by  someone claiming to be Don Foster on  Sun Dec 3 22:46 CST 2000 [RELATED]

    Get the oil sender and any needed fittings. It's sure to be as rare (=$$$) as the cluster, even though it's probably VDO (=$$$).



    Don Foster (near Cape Cod, MA)







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      Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

      posted by  someone claiming to be chris ulrich on  Mon Dec 4 06:32 CST 2000 [RELATED]



      Unfortunately, the cluster only has an idiot light not oil pressure.

      Is it possible that the sender has an output for an oil pressure as well

      as the idiot light? Would I still need it if it only has hookups for

      the idiot light?

      As for temperature sender and gas sender -- a friend once used guages

      from a fiat on his 122; the temperature worked fine (as did the tach)

      but he had problems with the speedo. He got another speedo out of a later

      145 (and set it on his dashboard with double sided tape, running the

      cable through the transmission hole) and now everything "works". He

      got another temperature sender out of another car (I forget which) but

      his temp gauge reads about 180 most of the time, and when it doesn't

      it makes sense that it doesn't.

      So, what I was thinking was that the gauges seem to be mostly compatible

      except in specific cases (speedo / tach with different cylinders, etc).

      Anyhow, I'll go to the yard and pick up the rest of the stuff. The

      yard doesn't charge much for this sort of thing. Heck, I might also get

      the head since this one is off of an automatic with fuel injection so

      hopefully it has fewer miles and bigger valves.

      Thanks again,

      chris







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        Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

        posted by  someone claiming to be Don Foster on  Mon Dec 4 07:41 CST 2000 [RELATED]

        Chris --

        This is a GT cluster, but doesn't have an oil pressure gauge? That's MUCH different than the 240! Sorry I misled you.

        The sender used in the 240 application is a "two-in-one." That is, it has two connections terminals on one (large) sender. One is for the gauge, the other is for the idiot light. The connection for the gauge is a pressure-sensitive resistor, and the connection for the light is a pressure-sensitive switch (closed on low pressure).



        Don Foster (near Cape Cod, MA)







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          Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

          posted by  someone claiming to be chris ulrich on  Mon Dec 4 07:50 CST 2000 [RELATED]

          The stock 69-72 cluster has a speedo bar that works like a thermometer,

          gas and temp gauges, and brake/oil/signal/high beam lights.

          The GT cluster fits into the same hole, has 4 round gauges: tachometer,

          gas, temp, and speed (the tachometer and speedo are larger than the others);

          plus idiot lights for brake/oil/overdrive/signal/high beam.

          I'd like to find a set of gauges for oil pressure and temperature, but

          if I find them I'd put them on the secondary cluster that goes in front

          of the fuse box in the center console. Then, I guess I'd need the

          different sender.

          Do I need the sender for the gas gauge? These are *definitly* vdo gauges.

          chris







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            Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

            posted by  someone claiming to be Don Foster on  Mon Dec 4 08:01 CST 2000 [RELATED]

            Chris --

            "...a speedo bar that works like a thermometer..."

            Yeah, a clever gizmo. It's really a long skinny drum (sideways) with a "barber pole" spiral around it, and you view the drum along its length through a slit.

            "...find a set of gauges for oil pressure and temperature..."

            I don't see why you couldn't adapt the optional gauges used in the 240 to this application. They're made by VDO, and as long as you have the proper senders, they should work fine. The GT water temp gauge will work with your existing sender. But if you find an iol temp gauge, be sure to also get its sender.

            "Do I need the sender for the gas gauge?"

            Yes — but the one you need is the one you have.



            Don Foster (near Cape Cod, MA)







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              Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

              posted by  someone claiming to be chris ulrich on  Mon Dec 4 09:09 CST 2000 [RELATED]

              The 240 dash (from what I've seen in salvage yards) is much better

              thought out that the early 140 dash -- lots of places to put random

              gauges such that they look normal and standard. The 164 I took the

              gauge cluster out of had a console like this one but

              without the gauges (it just had a clock and a vent). The gauge cluster

              looks like but it had a

              standard 68-72 steering wheel from a 140 (not 164). Probably I'll try to

              find the gauges that I want from an earlier turbo 240 and the senders from

              an old italian or english sports car (so I don't have to mess with changing

              from metric to standard threads) since most of them have oil pressure and

              often temperature. The only problem then is getting them to look right

              in the secondary gauge cluster. Heck, if I ever get an overdrive transmission

              for this car maybe I should put an OD pressure gauge in as well!

              Thanks for all the tips!

              chris







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    Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

    posted by  someone claiming to be Chevy on  Sun Dec 3 16:58 CST 2000 [RELATED]

    You'll only have trouble with the tach because it's designed for a 4cyl so it'll run at 1.5x higher than the true reading.

    There might be some electrical genuius out there who knows a simple trick to create a solutions but the only solutions I can think of are to ring some gauge repairers and ask if they could redo the internals to suit a 6cyl while keeping a the face and body of the tach. the other option would be to get a 4cyl!







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      Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1972

      posted by  someone claiming to be Sebastian Segercrantz on  Sun Dec 3 23:06 CST 2000 [RELATED]

      I don't think the tachometer should pose any problem whatsoever.. i calibrated mine with a stroboscoce for the ignition. The strobe had a digital putout for the rpm... The tach had a potentiometer (adjustable resistor) behind a rubber cover that was ab. 7mm in diameter. This tach was on a regular 164-72 placed in the center console... the tach is a smiths one...







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      Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

      posted by  someone claiming to be chris ulrich on  Sun Dec 3 17:26 CST 2000 [RELATED]



      Ooops! I guess I forgot to clarify:

      the gt cluster is from a 1972 164e

      I want to install it into a 1970 164, so the cylinder issues aren't

      a problem.







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        Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

        posted by  someone claiming to be Chevy on  Sun Dec 3 20:03 CST 2000 [RELATED]

        No problem then!

        The wire for the tach connects to the negative terminal on the coil.

        I've never heard of a 6cyl GT

        Just from my understanding a resistor wouldn't change the gauge readout since it runs off the pulses as each cylinder fires........but i would like someone to back me up on that one.







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      Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

      posted by  someone claiming to be chris ulrich on  Sun Dec 3 17:24 CST 2000 [RELATED]



      Actually, my 1970 volvo is a 164. I do have a 1968 4 cylinder, but

      I like that one 100% stock. So, all I need to do is take the old

      guage cluster out of the 164 and put the gt cluster in in it's place.

      I wonder how rare a gt cluster for a 164 is vs the gt cluster for

      the 140?

      So the wires are in place for the tach already? Or would I need to

      run one from the coil to the hookup for the tach?

      It'll be fun to have a tachometer again.

      I've read that you can make a tachometer read at a different rate

      by putting in a resistor. The people who put a ford V8 into a 240

      talk about this.

      thanks!

      chris







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        Re: GT gauge cluster (164) 140-160 1970

        posted by  someone claiming to be Lee on  Sun Dec 3 19:14 CST 2000 [RELATED]

        Wow, thats a major score, I've never seen a GT cluster with a 6 cyl tach. I've seen the Smiths tachs that mount on top of the dash, I have 2 of them. Go back to the yard and pick up sender units for temp and gas gauge, they may be different, or so I hear. You'll also need a wire from the - side of the coil to the back of the tach, everything else will plug in the same as the original unit.

        Lee






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