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I pulled my 240 off the road as it was getting hard to drive.
it seems like its running ok, engine has good compression I rebuilt it just 20 years ago ;-) did the head gasket last year all looked nice still,
it idles ok, actually it was runing smoothand exceptionally well.. but now when I accelerate it sometimes feels like I'm putting my foot into the gas and the car doesn't know, after a moment it seems to correct then it goes, If I floor it it has power..
I'm planing to check the throttle closed switch because I'm wondering if maybe its not opening the switch , maybe hen the ECU is seeing it closed throttle, but after I floor it maybe, after a few seconds it realizes its running way lean and then corrects via the air mass meter and 02 sensor telling the ECU to give more fuel..
a few seconds is a lot when I'm making a left turn and the car suddenly won't clear an intersection , so its off the road, not a huge rush but I do want o fix it.
I thought I could try another air mass meter, or maybe inject smoke into the intake, some use a vape pen and a little air pump to force in "smoke " from a vape pen in, then look for any intake hose leaks, I could try that, Ive been meaning to make such a rig up.
bad ECU maybe?
I tried to read the codes.. I could not get the thing to blink at all so it might have a fault code but I don't seem able to retrieve it.
Ive heard that the mass meter can fail because the airbox has a valve that can fail and cause it to constantly suck hot air from the hose that runs near the exhaust manifold, but Ive noticed its a bit disconnected.
I tried the spray cleaners for the air mass meter, then got my glasses and actually read the can and it says not for use on heated air mass meters, I think the 240 one is heated but that cleaning wasn't too recent and it was running perfectly before all this..
the problem seemed to happen just once in a while but got more frequent.
any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this are appreciated.
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i did not read every word written on the problem.
did you check fuel pressure? can you check it while driving? sounds like the fuel pump is tired or wrong. every problem i've seen like you describe sounds like low fuel pressure and volume. even new pumps that are sold for these cars but are not bosch do this. so, no airtex, carter, walbro-nothing but bosch if you have to replace it. and yes, you could very well have a tired bosch pump. this ASSUMES the feed pump is working correctly. the main pump has no guts if it has to pull from the tank and push to the engine. verify tank pump volume and fuel pressure at the engine. good luck, chuck.
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Hi Porkface,
Nice post.
Phil has been unable to connect, and via email I convinced Phil
to attend to his busted OBD port. This AM he reports that it's
fixed and he got a 2-1-2 Missing O2 sensor signal.
Then I see the +12V to the O2 sensor is Fuse 4
Same fuse for the intank pump.
He's gonna carefully shine up the fuses and sockets
and apply Penetrox-A to all his fuse contact surfaces with a Q-Tip.
Now Phil needs the Volvo wiring diagram for the 1990 240?
Does anyone have a good link OR know the publication number so
he can search for it?
Keep cool, Bill
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Curious about the O2 sensor. That's a definite possibility, or at least a contributing factor for poor acceleration. I didn't suspect this as Phil didn't mention a Check Engine light, which should have been set by the 2-1-2 Missing/faulty O2 signal DTC. Fuse 4 is the O2 sensor heater and won't by itself trigger a code, but could in theory indirectly trigger the code if the ECU was bright enough to sense that the O2 sensor was taking to long to warm up, either from no heater circuit or a badly fouled sensor.
I would:
a) Make sure the fault wasn't transient and is still present by doing an OBD reset and making sure the code returns within the next few starts.
b) Inspect the O2 sensor wiring under the car to make sure the cable isn't damaged, paying special attention to where it goes into the sensor and as well the firewall clips.
c) Open the O2 sensor connector on the firewall and make sure there is some kind of continuity on the heater circuit between pin 2(black wire) and pin 3 (yellow-red).
d) After a good warmup and with the engine running, open the O2 sensor connector on the firewall (or probe into the back of the pin) and measure voltage between pin 1 (green wire) and chassis ground (the black wire system ground point on the fuel rail is best). For a working O2 sensor, the voltage should be between about 0.1V and 0.9V and will fluctuate depending on current engine rich/lean running conditions, typically responding within a second or so to between 0.4V and 0.8V going to/from idle to sustained higher revs (like over 2,000 rpm).
e) Failing the above, plan to replace the O2 sensor.
The 1990 240 wiring diagram schematics can be found on this Google drive collection
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1CuClHEuSSHxeUOxnDhmA7FEozZPJPJN2
The closest online green manual I know of for a later 240 with LH 2.4 is the final year 1993 one in the OzVolvo technical archives
https://ozvolvo.org/archive/?download=VGFsaWVzc2luIFBlbmZvdW5kIC0gVFAzMjM1Mi0xIDE5OTMgMjQwIFdpcmluZyBEaWFncmFtcy5wZGY=
Bill, please pass the message on to Phil in case he can't see this, which may be due to the recent excessively slow response of the brickboard server. Oddly, I find the server much more responsive in morning hours, making me think Jarrod's own server gets busy doing other things during the rest of the day.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi Dave,
Glad you showed up.
It turns out Phil needs the 240 manual for the 89 model year.
His car made in 10/88. Looks like the same deal with the O2 sensor
and intake pump both on fuse 4.
He got a 2-1-2 code: Missing or faulty O2 sensor.
After work he'll stick a new fuse 4 check that he has 12V there.
Clear OBD codes and see if it drives OK without resetting 2-1-2
It's taken days to service fuse 4.
Why mess with the O2 sensor if it's a fuse block problem.
One step at a time, eh? ...my Canadian impersonation :-)
Bill
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It would be nice to think it's just the fuse, but on further thought it could also be the fuel pump relay, one of the most common 240 failure points. Fuse 4 gets its power from the fuel pump (system) relay. In addition to the O2 sensor heater, fuse 4 also powers the in-tank pre-pump, which can also affect acceleration under the sudden extra fuel demand. On spec and without further diagnosis, I'd now want to re-flow the main solder points in the fuel pump relay as well as cleaning up fuse 4 then make sure the in-tank fuel pump is purring by listening down the tank filler neck to confirm operation.
The '89 240 wiring schematics can be found on the same Google drive that I linked to. That '93 green manual is the only one I've recently spotted online for an LH 2.4 240. The wiring harnesses changed very little in the final years, with the exception of wiring added for things like ABS and SRS. Phil's '89 240 DL is the same year as the one I got brand new for my parents. I worked on it for many years. My brother now has it and lives in Phil's region of BC. It may well be the lowest mileage 240 in the entire province, not even 65K miles on it.
At least 240 fuse blocks are fairly easy to work on, starting with spinning the fuses to wear through any aluminum oxidation, pulling the fuses to make sure the pointed ends haven't worn through (that's a 240 gotcha that many people take time to learn), polishing the contacts and tweaking them in a bit if needed, even removing the spade connectors for cleaning the side terminals (not recommened unless you need to as it can weaken the connector, which may then need tweaking with pliers to get a good snug fit). Even removing the side panel and pulling the fuse block to service or even replace it is easier than pulling out a 700/900 relay tray so you can flip it over to access the back side.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi Dave,
Everything is going slow, Phil was under the weather, then rained out.
I have already suggested that he get a *NEW* main relay and
to make a gauge out of a 1/4" spade lug and a hunk of solid CU from Romex
to test his main relay socket for loose pins. Explained how to remove to
tweak or replace, and suggested that the main relay socket gets a little dab of Penetrox-A on each female pin.
Everyone should read these two items by Ron Qwas and Dave Barton:
TLC for geriatric connectors, relay & lamp sockets.
http://sw-em.com/anti_corrosive_paste.htm
https://www.240turbo.com/volvo240mods.html#anticorrosivepaste
Bill
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im listening intently to all these good suggestions.
I spent the weekend actually working on my 740 not the 240 just because I thought maybe I can fix it's issues up faster and then tend to the 240 with the problem of it failing to acellerate..
the 240 runs smooth as silk when it runs properly so some gremlin crept in , es I can try a different FPR or AMM. maybe the capacitors start to fail in the ECU I tried to recap the one in my 88 Van, almost the same thign really it had 3 or 4 little electrolytic caps. I failed because I clipped a transistor in a slip up so I set it aside and bought a rebuilt one.. I could try to recap one of the volvo ones.
withthe 740 its runnign funny but in a slightly different way, same engine but a year or two newer so it doesn't' have any memory, the check engine light is on and I keep wondering why. the older 240's had a thing on the back of the speedo that I'd reset, so the warning was just a reminder to change the timing belt but I could find no such switch on the back of my 740 speedo.
I thouhgt I might go back to square one and try to adjust the timing on the 240, and check the throttle switch. I noticed that when working on the starter issues that I had recently that if I left the ignition on and reached in there the idle air control valve was sort of vibrating. I pulled another and stuck it in there, changed the little vacuum line for the manifold down to the screen above the flame trap and the one from the FPR to throttle body, not much difference. I sprayed most of a can of throttle body cleaner and sea foam in past the AMM hoing it would perhaps claar some gunk if it was dirty in the throttle body area.
It runs pretty well on power, but idles and shakes in a weird way. I wondered if maybe the balancer shaft slipped or is mis-timed, maybe I should do the belts or at least pull the timing cover and check the marks are right. it doesnt vibrate that bad once it's going down the road under power.
the 240 is 1990 and has a TDC sensor, Ive had issues with that. in the 740 it has the hall sensor int he distributor and it's had issues too causing a no start, obviously both are working now as they do run.
in my ford van, the way the timing is set , there is what ford calls a "spud connector" its a little jumper you can unplug and it disables how the timing is over-ridden by the ICU which then allows you to adjust the timing with a light and turning the distributor. ,Then you plug it back in. Volvo doesnt' do it quite that way but I'd like to make sure the timing is right. if my timing isn't set right maybe that could make it shake like this?
im not finding any leaks, but I could look further. yes Ive seen how any leak especially between the intake and mass meter can make it run really bad.
new motor mounts might not be a bad idea. I've seen cars where I could take a 2x4 and sort of pry up upon the engine to see them broken. Ill check compression to see if any cylinders might have weak compression. maybe I should buy a new mass meter. I noticed that rock auto, at least for a while had just the element so it can evidently be changed,maybe cheaper?
It was all I could do to get the 740 on the road, the signal lights had an issue but it was just a bad bulb socket. I put all the dash back together. although it's shaky at idle , it runs better than the 240 with the stalling out issues.
I still have basically two issues, the 740 runs strong but shakes at idle, its not quite right. the 240 runs but goes very weak on power intermittently.
I think the issues are quite similar in that they seem to relate to them just not running smoothly. both seem to have engine lights on but neither is letting me extract any codes. the 88 740 wagon has no code reader and the 1990 240 doesn't return any blinking.
do the engine check engine lights mean that it has a code stored? or is this something to do with the timing belt and just need resetting? they aren't overheating.
although not related , my 88 ford van also has similar issues, it is missing and running very rough , but running.
I'm ok changing any part but diagnosing these issues seems to be making my hair fall out..
I have a spare 740 standing by, it has a busted windshield and I have a spare windshield but haven't driven it. but Ive been trying to leave it alone and keep it intact, if I need to pull a part for testing I can. its a 1990 and has the code reader.
I have a spare line from the fuel rail to the filter and pump and a spare fuel rail, I was thinking of using those fittings and just connecting it to a pressure gauge so I could install a gauge temporarily where the fuel is fed into the fuel rail. If I can rig that up maybe i can at least make comparisons from one vehicle to another.
can I just use a gauge for air or water pressure? maybe if I can quantify what the fuel pressure actually is it could be a clue or at least prove its not the FPR ? likewise I do have an old vacuum gauge so maybe there are some ways to measure what the manifold vacuum should be, and see if its ok.
I tried spraying carb cleaners and things around the manifold gaskets and couldn't detect any vacuum leak that way. I'm thinking that making a smoke tester to feed smoke in might help decide if I have a leak anywhere that's gone un-nnoticed.
thanks for the great help with this, I'll keep thinking and trying to figure out the basis of all these issues. I'm having quite a time isolating any of them.
sometimes it's a matter of using a process of elimination and used parts going to a drive after swapping out this part or that.. I might hit upon the right thing that way..
just looking for something that make enough of a difference to feel like I'm on to something substantial is a help. right now I'm just confused.
I figured that I found the rough running issue because I did find an injector that wasn't injecting. last year the 240 had one that was stuck on and flooding a cylinder.. but i got through that and it ran fine since. It blew a head gasket and I fixed that. its been ok over winter. for some weird reason the 240 can run smooth has silk on idle once all is working right, but the 740 seems to shake a lot more at idle and has done for a while.
It seems that although that was an issue and I fixed it, it still shakes a lot.. i do have an oscilloscope maybe I could try looking the trace to the coil, or before the powerstage, or to the injectors and see if the profile looks right. maybe I'd see differences in the oscilloscope trace from one car to the next. The cars are all obviously seeing a pulse because they run but maybe something gets goofed up due to bad capacitors in the ECU.. I can swap around ECU"s or ignition modules, not usually the first place I'd start. If I could switch ECU's and see some improvement it might mean something..
Ive primarily run all my cars on higher octane fuel , thinking it may avoid such issues.. I dont really know if that makes a difference but Ive heard it is better for when a car is parked. I haven't noticed any fuel starvation issues like weak acceleration when they get going, any of my cars seem to run ok if it's at full throttle but I think that just masks a lot of more subtle issues like vacuum leaks or timing slightly off, or idle control valve issues.
I thin I have a lot to check but maybe sould first verify if the timing is correct and that the throttle body switch is working correctly. maybe I can probe the idle air valve and see it reacting by way of the throttle body switch being open slightly or closed. i noted it has 3 pins and wondered what the third is for. is it on or off or would it have mid positions? maybe I can blow through it and apply power to check it. or similar. I think some volvo ones have three hoses, these ones just have 2 hose connections. I think my Porsche 944 has the same bosche valve. I sprayed brake parts cleaner and then some some throttle body cleaner in it yesterday, switched it out for another one in the process, I did not see any big changes.
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Hi Phil,
You have a check engine light, then you should check for OBD codes.
See what the computer is squawking about.
BB
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Hi,
I recently had the same problem on my 90 240, although the stumble went away with a fully warmed up engine.
After swapping a known good ECU and AMM and checking fuel pressure without effect
, I went on a fairly long drive and noticed my gas mileage was down.
That led me to think that a small leak at the header pipe to cat connection that I had been negligent to fix might be at play, and indeed replacing the gasket cured the fault and improved the mileage.
My guess is that the O2 sensor was sensing a high oxygen situation and the 951 ECU was sending more gas to compensate. On a cold engine this might have caused a momentary flooding and stumble on acceleration.
I recommend that you check for any leaks in the exhaust between the engine and O2 sensor.
Good luck, Peter
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A couple of things that are simple and cheap.
Air filter - I once had a Mini in the 60s that was not running well so I had it tuned by a specialist - on the way home, it died on the highwy. My uncle sent over a real mechanic - he removed the air filter and it ran fine!
Try removing the air filter for a short ride
Mass air plug - once our ’88 745 would not accelerate - I tried it several times on my street - for some reason, I backed up - It ran like a jack rabbit in reverse. I checked the plug on the air sensor, and found that one pin had been pushed back, when I fixed it, it ran fine.
Check th pins on the sensor - this is one plug that is disconnected and reconnected during service. I pulled the boot on the plug and made a line across the wires so I could see if a pin was pushed back.
When I had issues with a 740 that was idle when I tried to sell it - my service writer gave me a small tube of dielectric grease and told me to unplug connections in the engine compartment, clean the connection, apply dielectric grease and zip tie any plugs that I could - this fixed the issues - I did one each week so that if I had a problem, I knew which plug it was.
Good luck, you have plenty of things to try!
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In addition to the other Phil's good ideas and suggestions, especially the FPR, my first thought on reading your description was a faulty AMM. I would definitely want to swap in a known good one to see if the acceleration improves when blipping the throttle. In one of my LH 2.4 B230s I suspected the AMM was getting a bit unresponsive when pressing the gas pedal. I swapped in the one from my B230FT and the engine ran as normal. Figuring I had nothing to lose I took some supposedly decent spray AMM cleaner to it and managed to make it worse. I then decided to treat myself to a nice rebuild from Injection Labs, with the original now on the shelf as a known poor spare.
I've never heard that cleaning makes much of a difference with our hot wire AMMs. If the AMM burn off cycle starts to become less efficient then the platinum wires may start to accumulate dirt, especially during long trips. To help prevent your AMM from overheating and having a sudden failure when the air box thermostat wax piston decides to give up, the general recommendation has always been to permanently disconnect the pre-heat hose off the exhaust heat shield unless you live in an Arctic climate. You don't have to worry about BC AirCare anymore, but in the old days I used to screw the air diverter flap shut inside the air box, out of sight of the inspectors.
Unmetered air or inadequate vacuum momentarily getting in the way during acceleration could be split/loose hoses. Inspect carefully the vacuum line rubber collars on top of the throttle body for signs of splits as well as all other vacuum fittings and vacuum check valves, such as on the brake booster. Also carefully check the accordion air intake tube for splits starting in the bellows (usually out of sight underneath). Under acceleration, in addition to the vacuum changing, another thing that changes is engine torque twisting the engine on its mounts, which can momentarily open a hose split wider, especially if an engine mount has gone soft or a face of the mount has separated.
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Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi Dave,
I agree with your summations as well.
You have better explanations to the intermittent problems he is having.
The components I mentioned with the FPR, oxygen sensor and TPS do not normally fix themselves.
The idea of the left hand turning versus a right hand turn is largely the turning radius inertia involved.
With the left hand turn the engine block would have more of a tendency to swing away from the left side of the car and therefore pull on the accordion tube and aggravate a split.
Especially in the second half or latter part of the turn as more speed would have been obtained..
Motor mounts are a good possibility in that the engine twists under take off through an intersection.
I have found the smallest split in these hoses to cause the engine to just suddenly falter at idle. Not every time either just enough but enough to aggravate me to investigate the issue.
With this find I tried filling the split with several liquid electrical tape coatings.
I now keep a couple extra hoses stashed from “Junkyard” finds
They are obtainable at reasonable prices still from vendors but Of COURSE, that is depending on what your “reasonable” determination is for a thin but tough plastic part.
They hold up remarkably well considering the years but you have to make sure that they cannot rub up against anything around down there.
I like your idea that the cracks seem to show up on the underside! Vacuum hoses are the same way IMHO.
I have not determined exactly what makes an AMM go wonky.
I have picked up extra AMMs and Injection Labs and Programa (?) have been decent replacements in the past. There maybe others? Some store offer lifetime warranty so I think we’re covered for a while.
Overall it’s my belief that the 240 was the best at meeting all the perimeters of design and cost to produce and maintain a machine, for these many years, that will probably never be repeated.
I truly believe that no cleaner is going to help much if cremation was the only answer the engineers had for a fix. 🤔
As Einstein had stated many times that you cannot destroy matter but it can be changed into something else. Everything in the cosmos is still here or there?
Heat energy is nothing more than the result of oxidation affecting other energies while transferring to another place.
Evidently in the case it has to be a vaporization process for that a second or so.
Yes heat gets to everything eventually and the electronics inside that sealed box is no exception.
My favorite component for changing values are capacitors but why not any junction or connection.
They must have an impurities too.
We see that all the time with harnesses.
Nothing is perfect but we do get very close to our goals it seems despite the current trend to crush and cremate again and again in the millions?
Excuse me, billions of people.
Estimates are 106 billion + are still in this biosphere we call earth.
Only a hundred thousand 240’s left, I guess but with happy souls!
Phil
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Hi,
The most likely cause is supposed to be the fuel pressure regulator as it is made to stop returning excess fuel to the tank under accelerations.
A vacuum and its port from the intake manifold is the trigger mechanism for it to work.
You might have a plugged up port source. Easy enough to check out before getting all warm and fuzzy with pressure gauges. 🤭
If it’s not starting hard from the lack of rest pressure inside the fuel rail or acting like its flooding, then the FPR is most likely OK.
The next thing could be a CPS starting to go wonky as it affects the timing but then your idea of a bad throttle switch that tells the ECU what you are wanting to do next is a good start in the proper direction.
The TPS has to show a change of state each time it moves. Idling to off idle and to wide open throttle.
The END between zone is left to the FPR’s calibration.
The vacuum at idle works in conjunction against a preset spring pressure and the incoming fuel pressure to open the valve seat upon starting. Otherwise it should stay shut.
At idle it is there to return some fuel to the tank.
When less vacuum occurs, then the valve, that was partially open, is adjusted to completely shut down and the fuel backs up on the rail side.
Then the injectors have more fuel volume to spray with.
The ECU controls the time open and is known as “pulse width.”
Its uses the O2 sensor signal to adjust mixtures and a RPM signal to set the timing advance sooner to get the burning going sooner as RPM increases.
The ignition systems only work so fast to get sparks there soon enough!
The spark from an ignition coil is only “X” long in duration too.
So, from some beginning point, the rest of the added fuel is supposed to all burn up. 🤫
But we know that never truly happens or we wouldn’t need catalytic converters. 🤔
Yes you get more power only because you cram in more cycles per second and forget about those left overs doing any more than they could do before!
You can smell a mismanaged engine on any grade right away but unless you are behind your own car you’ll never know. Isn’t that beautiful about combustion engines even at 35,000 feet.🙄
I hope they are more sophisticated up there than down here!
Have you got the spark plugs clean and gapped correctly? As that can be somewhat critical on the red blocks believe it or not.
Yep you will have to think through what you feel and can find to iron the wrinkles out of this one, especially if it’s intermittent.
😬
Keep us entertained!
Phil
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