Volvo RWD 200 Forum

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240 (1991) Break Pedal Sinking 200

Hello.

I had my mechanic replace strut insert. He thought he had to remove break to get to the strut. (Probably he was wrong.) In any case, the job was done but now the break pedal has to be pressed down somewhat lower to stop. He would need to fix it. I presume this is not a difficult to fix.

Is there any thing 240-specific that he has to know? He is a good mechanic but is not specialist with 240s.

Thanks.








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Use a Motive pressure bleeder - Your mechanic failed you. 200

You can replace a strut insert on RWD McPherson suspension Volvo without cracking open brake lines and removing it and from the car.

Removing the strut assembly from the RWD Volvo requires cracking open the brake line between the inner fender brake line plate and the strut assembly.

Do NOT screw around with braking. Do NOT use the brake pedal to bleed brakes.

A better method of bleeding brake using the brake pedal exists placing 2"x3" section under the brake pedal to limit brake pedal travel. You need an assistant to open on press down and close before release. You do this as air will get sucked into the brake system through the caliper bleeder nipple to brake caliper thread interface.

Use DOT4 brake fluid ONLY. You can use DOT3 yet the formation is decades old. DOT4 provide better protection as the brake fluid absorbs atmospheric moisture and darkens over time.

Why we use the pressure power bleeder that Motive makes.

Anyhoo, you have ABS if you have (within red square):


You can follow the brake caliper nipple bleed order whether using the terrible brake pedal method or the pressure bleeder fluid method like what Motive makes.

The ABS brake master cylinder is different from the non-ABS master cylinder. I read articles that you cannot find the ABS master cylinder for sale. I read how others use the non-ABS master cylinder with the ABS braking system.

Inspect the flexible brake lines. If these are cracked severaly that uyou can see the hard nylon line core (black), replace these. The effort can suck. See Dave Barton's site and get SK or better brand line wrenches.

240 brake bleed order not ABS:



Volvo 240 ABS brake bleed order as Dave Barton's website helps millions of Volvo 240 owners. Billions of them!

https://www.240turbo.com/volvo240bigbrakes.html#bleeding



Questions?

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Use a Motive pressure bleeder - Your mechanic failed you. 200

Thank you.
My mechanic and his mentor (who owned volvo 240) replaced strut/shocks with no problem quickly several years ago.

This time, the mechanic worked alone because his mentor retired.

So mechanic removed the brakes. the brake pedal is now soft. So I will have to study as much as possible and guide him to get it right.








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What repair service made the brakes soft? 200

Please explain what the repair service? Did he open the hydraulic brake lines?

The strut / shock or damper replacement was years ago, then.

Your mechanic installed new brake pads? What else did he do?

With new brake pads it takes some miles for the brake pad friction surface and the brake rotor to conform together. The rotors made today are thin to start when new. Use organic brake pads.
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What repair service made the brakes soft? 200


I followed the Youtube tutorial (thank you) and I checked out my Bentley book to read the bleeding sequence.

I wrote down the exact bleeding sequence and gave it to my mechanic, who followed the sequence.

The break works great now.

But I still have to replace front drive side tie rods and I put a new message under a new heading.

Thank you for much help!!








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What repair service made the brakes soft? 200 1991

Glad your auto repair service restored braking. Stopping a car is the most important thing!

If a tie rod is bad, usually replace in pairs.

Also, if not already, inspect the inner tie rods under them steering rack accordion style bellows boots. Check for power steering fluid leaks. Maybe clean under there like power wash before getting in there. You mechanic appreciates it! If concerned about steering, the power steering fluid may like a change, yet folks let it gor fort decades.

The inner tie rods can fail. The steering rack bellows can last a very long time, yet a road object strike, power steering fluid, and neglect. Used and new ones are available. Maybe buy new unless a hole free used? I have used bellows I pulled from yunkyards in there.

If newly replaced front steering dampers, your mechanic inspected both ball joints and the front suspension bushings. Did he check the front wheel bearings? Easy to pack grease in there.

Glad you have safe and firm brakes. Volvo Car AB, if it was 1991, probably has a policy that each Volvo has brake bled using a pressure bleeder with new DOT 4 brake fluid. I hope your brake fluid is not black!

An automobile is a dependent assembly so I see it is a dependent series of systems comprised of discrete objects! And it is made in Torslanda Volvo 240 ... ! Wish they kept the Halifax Canada plant open.
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Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert & Gene Siskel






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What repair service made the brakes soft? 200 1991

Thanks for great comments!








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240 (1991) Brake Pedal Sinking 200

Hi Sparrow,

Your mechanic just needs to bleed the brakes.

When was the last time your brake fluid was flushed and replaced with new?
If it's been several years, ask him to do that, a routine job for any auto
mechanic.

Happy motoring, Bill








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240 (1991) Brake Pedal Sinking 200

Bill is correct. Sounds like the brakes need to be bleed. My guess is he unnecessarily disconnected the caliper or a brake line to replace the strut insert.

--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....








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Addendum 200

One more thought. Does your 91 240 have an ABS or non-ABS brake system? As I recall, 91’s could have either. Maybe just some models or later 91’s got ABS brakes - I forget which.

My point is the non-ABS 240’s have multiple brake lines going to the front caliper and are notoriously hard to bleed. The correct bleeding sequence has to be followed or you end up with a soft pedal. The ABS front caliper has fewer brake lines and is easier to bleed correctly.

--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....








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Addendum 200

Thank you all for reply.

I believe my 240 has non-ABS brakes. What are correct sequences to bleed brake lines?








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Addendum 200

Hi,

Try this site as they have a lot of things to read about brakes and more.

https://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/Brakes.html#BrakeFluidFlushingProcedures

Phil








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Addendum 200

Thank you. I will check it.

How can I tell whether my 240 1991 has ABS or not? I think it does not but I am not sure.








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Addendum 200

If you have ABS there will be an 'ABS' dash bulb when the key is turned on and under the hood there will be a medium sized black box with an aluminum base and a bunch of brake lines connected, also normally says ABS on the top.

Your mechanic should have automatically known to bleed the line(s) if he disconnected a line, also not to let a line drip open during a lengthy service and let the reservoir get too low. I would question his competence if he didn't.

The master cylinder has two separate brake fluid circuits using a common fluid reservoir. Tell your mechanic you want a power bleed (vacuum bleed, eg. MityVac) or pressure bleed) and not a pedal bleed (risking master cyl seal damage when the pedal gets closer to the floor than normal travel). In the non-ABS version, tell your mechanic Volvo uses a triangular dual brake circuit with a pressure sensing balance switch in the junction box to sense a brake failure. The triangles are two front brakes (either both lower or both upper pistons) with one of the rear brakes. For ABS there are no bleeders on the ABS unit and air can sometimes get trapped, such as after the reservoir running dry. The ABS should be cycled, either electrically (the LH OBD unfortunately has no function to do this) or by triggering the ABS slamming on your brakes (best done on gravel as opposed to finding a slippery surface).

Bleeding order isn't critical unless there's air in the system, such as your case. The bleed sequence may vary slightly in books. The rule to minimize air bubbles is to bleed the longest lines first, so rears first (often listed as right rear, then left rear), then the right front brake opposite the master, then the left last. If a line has been removed from the master cylinder or if it ran dry of fluid then begin with a master cylinder bleed just to be safe.

For your added education, soft brakes are (more or less in order) air in the line, air in the caliper, air in the ABS, air in the junction block, weak/failed rubber brake hoses, too soft or too hard brake pads, worn thin pads, and especially a combination of those. Air bubbles trapped in the calipers can be caused by opening the bleeders too far, especially when using the pedal method, or not closing the bleeders while fluid is still being pushed out, also aggravated by bleeding too slowly (air bubbles aren't as easily pushed over humps in the line). After a caliper replacement tap the caliper hard with a hammer to get any clinging bubbles to move to the top and consider a pre-bleed with the calipers off, held high so there's no air trap in the hose and the bleeders also high. If the master cylinder is replaced it should be bench bled first (see online for how to do this making up your own bleed tubes). If soft brakes persist then re-bleed a little off each caliper. Purists might try to raise the end of the car on the bleeder side of the caliper. When all else fails re-bleed the whole system starting with the master cyl.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now








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Bleeding brakes 200

Hi Dave,

I replaced a bad brake MC in my 740 with a "rebuilt" unit which luckily
had a lifetime warranty. Their idea of rebuilt was maybe to ignore the bore
and replace the seal. That's when I learned to avoid rebuilt MCs.
I think they replaced it maybe six times.
Probably I wrecked the new seal by bleeding with the peddle and finally made a power brake bleeder to avoid sending the MC piston into the nasty deep seal damaging territory when bleeding.

I was always amazed how stubborn some of those bubbles in the clear brake line tubing for bench bleeding the MC refused to budge even with a lot of tapping.
Since then I've wondered if the perfect tool for shaking those stubborn bubbles out of the MC, calipers and brake lines might be to use an electric palm sander without the sandpaper and just press the rubber pad to the MC when bleeding,
and the calipers when doing them. Maybe others have tried this?

Happy Thanksgiving, Bill







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