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Haven't been viewing in a long time. Life has changed.
One morning car started but runs horrible. Being an old hand I pulled off the Idle Control Valve. It looked clean, it also triggered very fast when adding voltage to it. Cleaned it, put it back in. Car still runs crummy. Flame Trap is Clean. Pulled Throttle body, it was clean but I cleaned it anyway. Still runs crummy. I gotta keep blipping throttle to keep it running. The 'off idle' Switch on throttle body is functioning.
It has that rough running that can either be ignition OR like, water in the fuel.
Would the computer not know how to fuel the engine if the O2 sensor was not connected? My exhaust system is pretty lousy at present. I'm at a loss. Next will be a tune up but because it was a good one day, bad the next, I'm thinking ignition parts aren't the problem.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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Tony, I don't have any answers but very recently and suddenly my 1983 240 started something similar. It starts but idles rough intermittently and hesitates/stumbles when driving - particularly uphill.
Here is a video of the engine at idle (drive dot google dot com/file/d/1jxNCknJQlhvG_J1vRy1aU0G32bqXfKJO/view?usp=sharing). if you watch/listen carefully you can here things smooth out for a short period of time and then return to the strange (for me) rough idle causing much more shaking than I expect.
Like you, I have been through the usual suspects:
* plugs - all are fine/perfect
* timing light - on my previously-made mark at idle and advances as expected with acceleration
* key-off run fuel pumps at fuses 5/7 - both run and sound fine
* had previously plugged the smaller of the 2 hoses that go to the intake from the carbon canister so I removed that smaller one that I plugged - no difference
* removed gas cap - no whooshing sound or smell
* removed oil filler cap - all looks perfect and running with it loose does NOT cause the cap to dance
* checked the recently-replaced flame trap and all appears intact and fine
* distributor cap/rotor - some small carbon build-up on the cap contacts but I cleaned and re-installed
* main coil wire to distributor - seemed a little loose so I widened the connector metal and re-installed
* with test light checked for flashing in test light upon cranking - got it
* checked connector to AMM and the ignition brain box - seemed solid and fine
* removed, inspected, and the re-inserted 25 amp FI fuse seemed ok
Somewhere in the last couple steps above, the rough idle condition turned into a no-start issue. I tried starting while forcing the main pump to run and that didn't help at all. So I went back and checked those last steps.
I decided to put di-electric grease on the spades of the 25 amp fuse and then the car not only started running again but it seems to be running much better, more smoothly. So then I took a test drive around the immediate neighborhood and up/down the hills and all went without troubles.
But I still note an occasional rough idle.
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Hi David,
You did a lot there.
Check for an air leak after the AMM to throttle body.
Check for Vacuum leaks.
Fuel filter?
CPS connector?
power stage contacts and heat sink thermal paste ?
Fuel relay?
My 940 started stalling at stoplights then refused to start.
Disconnected battery for a minute to reboot ECU's then it ran fine.
I'm curious if others will see this?
I cleaned off the dielectric silicone from the AMM and CPS connectors
with isopropyl alcohol and toothbrush and applied a thin film of Penetrox-D
zinc paste and its been OK for 5 weeks.
Spook and others like DeOxit and you can get a free sample of their new grease enough to do AMM and CPS.
https://caig.com/grease-sample/
I'll try that if the Penetrox fails.
If there's no danger of shorting at your fuse use a conductive grease
high nickel never-seez perfect for nickel plated fuses and fuse sockets.
or copper based never seez. You could use Penetrox-D there.
Maybe you should have started a separate post?
Good luck, Bill
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I wonder if you have the infamous crack in the hose from gas filter Pick-up to fuel pump. In the tank. Drive up hill, gas shifts in tank so tube is below fuel level. Fuel pump sucks air.
Do you almost 1/2 tank of fuel? That's about the level that tube is above the gas
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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Thanks for more thoughts. No OBD1 lights. ..Check Engine light on dash but probably hasn't run long enough since problem started. Air leak was one of my first thoughts after Idle Control Valve. Bellows is all right and test free.
EGR... Hmmmm, where?
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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You have a CEL, but no fault codes? Meaning no lights as you say, or nothing but 111 on fuel and ignition? I'm confused here. That's not right.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
“How much does a chimney cost?”
“Nothing, it’s on the house…” or "It's gone through the roof..."
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No dashboard light.
Car ran crummy one morning, never left the driveway. So maybe not enough Run time to trigger anything.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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Unmetered air intake is always a good thought for general rough running. An out of sight split on the underside of the bellows was my next thought, but you checked that. TB gasket or intake manifold gasket leak? Split, loose fitting or accidentally disconnecter rubber hose? Plug off the TB ports to see if that makes a diff. Disconnect the AMM and restart to see if "limp home mode" is an improvement, pointing the finger at the AMM. Does it smooth out a bit if you raise the RPM say up over 2k, or does it get worse?
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi,
Always rule out the ignition first as it’s the most vulnerable system.
Do not discount what is good or bad as there are environmental variations that can blow the whole thought of it.
Lots of connections if you count two ends of each wire attached to the distributor. That’s ten and only one need to be questionable a % one one cylinders power.
Then there the center contact onto the rotor button with a spring in between.
Add four more around the circle it’s makes.
It’s the middle man that can end up working through green smut on the caps terminals.
Then one should ohmmeter check each to have an even consistency of resistance on each wire.
Especially when connected onto a spark plug.
I check them all the way to the electrode itself as the plug boot hides the condition of the connection inside.
The spark plugs need the .028 gaps for the maximum results in the cylinders.
This is one third of the power plant that has only a fraction of a second to get things done right.
After clearing this system can you move on to an air or fuel delivery problem and how can it come and go crummy!
Phil
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Forgot to mention I pulled Cap off, no cracks, Coil post on Cap was clean and Springy as it should be.
Rotor was clean but took a little emery to end and center of it. Shined up the points on the Cap as well.
Air Cleaner and Cleaner Box was clean and free of critters.
Plugs are giving me a hard time to get out. It's not a lot of mileage but too much time since I pulled them last. Stupid me. They will unscrew but very stiff, I'm spraying Krill on them every few days until I can get back this.
Correct me if I'm wrong, all the Bad Harness issues was pre '88, true?
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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"...all the Bad Harness issues was pre '88, true?"
That is my belief, yes. 89 definitely not in the mix.
Tony, I'm curious how you verified the TPS contacts were closing consistently...
If they were open, which you can simulate just by pulling the connector off, the typical behavior is cycling idle rate, like someone has a nervous foot on the pedal, but maybe its behavior isn't so typical if the throttle opening is set too tight.
Aside from that, my first thought would be ignition, and Phil has you on the right path. Careful working those plugs out.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Money is the root of all wealth.
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Hi Art!
TPS: I disconnected the harness and did a continuity test. What is it? Pin 1 and 3 when closed, 3 and 2 when open? It IS set very low but I can hear it click when moving the throttle.
Yeah, the plugs are scaring me.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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Long-life plugs and cleaner running engines sure can make for hard plug removal and risking thread damage, not like the old days for me with plugs out every oil change for inspection and cleaning, with replacement every second oil change. You're reminding me I'm probably well overdue for a mid-life plug loosening on at least one car. Hard caked carbon on the exposed threads is the enemy. I imagine you're already doing this, once you get it moving, back it out just a little more each time, even just 1/32nd or less of a turn, then run it back in all the way a couple of times to clear the thread. I haven't done this, but when it's really binding and you don't want to risk stripping the threads if you accidentally get carried away, you could always think about using a click torque wrench in reverse. It would be extra slow going, but possibly safer than taking chances going with a little more force each time. The threads are good for maybe 25 ft-lbs tightening, so that would be my starting torque, going up or down a bit so it only moves a little each time. Worn or potentially previously damaged threads would make me want to start lower. I've never found penetrating oil helped all that much once you get started, also I was possibly not being patient to start with an overnight soak.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Yupper, out a bit, in a bit.
Yes, I remember those days and with the Volvo it was the same....30k mile tune-ups. I just lost my routine. Retired, no more consistent mileage being put on the Volvo, Building my home,etc. Instead of 3k mile oil changes every 6 weeks it went to once a year because it was 12 months didn't make the mileage. So, yeah, mileage never got there to trigger my mind to say tuneup time.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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Hi Tony
Good luck coaxing out the old plugs.
Maybe someone has tried heat on seized plugs? I'm all ears if they have.
I'd try an overnight soak with Mystery oil then have at it with your fingers crossed.
After you get the plug/s out, use a M14 X 1.25 tap,
put grease on it to catch the chips, and retap.
I found one with a 3/8 drive adapter that was handy on my 850 with an access problem for using a regular tap wrench.
I prefer machinist taps to chasers found at auto stores.
Always use never seize grease on the plug threads and you'll never suffer this problem again.
You can use that same tap for cleaning out O2 sensor ports.
Bill
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