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Opinions Needed on Suspension Poly Bushings 1992 245 Wagon 200

Hi everyone,

I'm going to replace aging suspension parts this Spring and would like everyone's expert opinions on using polyurethane bushings for sway bar and others. Currently my car has over 400k miles and all suspension bushings are original and untouched. Only the shocks have been replaced 22 years ago.

Will using poly make the ride less comfortable? Transfer a noticable amount of the road bumps through the frame and into me? I assume they'll improve handing noticably?

Also, I'd like opinions on using IPD sway bars, how much difference in handing, and how much more bump transfer?

Thanks for the ideas!








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    Opinions Needed on Suspension Poly Bushings 1992 245 Wagon 200

    You can search the brickboard or use a failing Google search the internets to find this information.

    The rear (large) control arm bushes fail at around 100k to 160k miles and front (small) control bushes arm bushes last up to 200k or so. I've not seen the small (front) fail, yet the rubber ages.

    There exists fitment issues where the outer steel shell of the rear, large control arm bushing does not secure to the rear large control arm housing. The fitting is loose. A few folks here had to weld it to the rear control arm housing. Since Volvo became Chinese owned, the classic Volvo parts are not as well. These are parts that are now as good as made in Asia made aftermarket.

    The left and right rear control arm bushings are different. The US market, or left hand drive (versus UK and some commonwealth nation right hand drive) model use a lighter (less bushing material) driver side bush over the heavier left and side bush so less road shock travels to the steering wheel. I use the left passenger side on both sides.

    The front bushes, old need to be pressed out of the A-arm and the rear large control arm housings. You take the A-arms and rear, large control arm housing to your auto machine shop with proper mandrels to press in and out as these press on the steel shell and not the rubber material.

    The strut mount (PN 1272455) is also nothing of what it was during and sometime after the 240 production run. The quality parts were made by Boge and SKF. The Volvo OEM is no better than aftermarket.

    The issue detailed here on Turbobricks, the sibling site to the mighty and all powerful brickboard:

    https://turbobricks.com/index.php?threads/volvo-oem-strut-mounts-early-failure.315522/
    See Art B's and Dave Samuels comments as solution.

    From BNE:
    https://www.bneshop.com/collections/240/products/240-spherical-offset-strut-mounts


    The trailing arm bushings are a similar matter, requiring a press. The rear control arm bushing secures in two plates, called 'ears' welded to the unibody and, with trailing arm remove and rear axle support yet out of the way, require what is called a trailing arm bushing tool. No longer made by Volvo or the Volvo tool vendor, you have instructions to build a tool using home improvement parts and grade 8 hardware and a drill press to fabricate the tool with spare threaded parts. An auto machine shop can press out and press in the front trailing arm bushing as it is pressed into the trailing arm.

    In (what may no longer be true) all instanced you can usually let the outer bushing shell remain for the front suspension control arm bushings and both trailing arm bushings.

    PowerFlex is I guess the same as SuperPro. Mo outer shell. You remove the bushing and old bushing material, and use a large C-Clamp and a lot of synthetic silicone grease, like Super Lube NLGI 2 as the pivot action is on the center as the bushing secures with the outer shell. High Performance urethane, meaning harder, far less compliant, for track, also include the outer shell and require full removal of the front control arm and rear trailing arm bushes.

    https://www.fcpeuro.com/Volvo-parts/240/Control-Arms-and-Bushings/?page=&year=1992&m=4&e=914&t=6&b=5&d=34&v=11

    The versions without an outer shell are a software, more compliant urethane, meaning more comfy with less road shock yet the ride quality is crisper versus new rubber solid bushes. The experience is subjective. The urethane bushing act more like a bearing and freely rotate.

    The solid rubber bushings require you do not apply fully torque. Enough to be snug and drive it to the alignment rack where your pal, the alignment mechanic, as part of the alignment, free the hardware and then apply final torque. You want the rubber bushes to be free of tension when 240 is at rest on your flat garage floor. The solid rubber bushed act like a ligament or tendon.

    There is also SuperPro I guess is the same as PowerFlex. There is Australian Whiteline for racing, and the red urethane brand I forget the brand name.

    As for dampers, Use Bilstein Touring front and rear and is a drop into your 1992. The Bilstein HD version is over lauded and can form leaks at the seal and water intrudes at the seal and in winter freezes and seizing the front strut dampers. It helps the front strut dampers if you also use the Turbo 240 OEM front strut dampers with the tapered accordion style boot.

    I got lucky and all three (of seven) 240s have the ball bearing front strut (PN 1272455). They all are now sealed bearings not meant for lateral movement and fail over time.

    You can use the FCP Groton and iPd sites for research and part number yet there may be outlets that sell what few quality parts remain for 240.

    www.gcp.se

    Search this forum as all the good stuff is in the brickboard unconscious from prior decades. Or in brickboard dreams.

    Where is Mr. Walker?

    Questions?

    Thanks,

    MacDuff


    --
    Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert.








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    Opinions Needed on Suspension Poly Bushings 1992 245 Wagon 200

    I had a 740 & used the poly bushings & they started breaking the lionks,Only use Volvo parts,,they lasted 400,000 miles so far?? just buy nesw








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    Opinions Needed on Suspension Poly Bushings 1992 245 Wagon 200

    Why change from parts that have gone 400K for you?

    New stock bushings should give you better handling and ride as well.

    What kind of bushings is Volvo using on their new cars?

    Volvo used what they though was the best material for bushings when they made your car.

    New stock bushings would probably use better materials than the materials in your original bushings.

    Do you know of any new cars that use poly bushings?








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    Opinions Needed on Suspension Poly Bushings 1992 245 Wagon 200

    Some like ipd sways, some don't. I've been using ipd sways in at least one of our Volvos for almost 40 years now. It depends on your situation and preferences, also the Volvo model you have, whether I think they're worth the cost and effort, leastwise for my tastes and needs. The poly bushings I'll mention later.

    Stock Volvo suspension is a compromise of handling and comfort and was different between models and series. Different diameters were used. Basic sedans did not get rear sways, while wagons always did. Putting a wagon rear sway on a sedan gave a subtle improvement that many enjoyed. GT/GLT front and rear sways were a larger diameter (standard on turbo and B23E sedans) and if you could find a used set people often wanted to upgrade to them, both wagons and sedans. If you wanted an even larger diameter for tighter handling and less side roll at the expense of a little comfort, you'd go for ipd sways, especially the front. Even larger diameters were available from other custom houses. To save money, you could stack two stock sways which are readily available used, sometimes free. If you search hard enough online you could probably find how to do the doubled up mountings. Someone used to sell mounting brackets to double up the rear.

    Ipd sways normally came with the poly bushings, which can also be bought separately. They wear less and last considerably longer and will naturally stiffen the handling a bit. Unless you just upgrade the bushings, it's hard to tell how much handling and ride stiffness is the bushings and how much the sways. I can't comment because I never did just the bushings

    If you had a basic automatic sedan and drive mostly in the city, forget it, go for stock Volvo comfort. If you drive more aggressively or on highways, a basic sedan can benefit from adding a rear sway. If you drive country roads and mountain highways, many like me find the improvement to the ipd larger diameter very worthwhile. Wagoins benefit even more. The 140/240 series has a slightly higher centre of gravity compared to some other cars, especially when carrying a load, and subject to roll. Wagons are also more susceptible to side roll in buffeting winds and from passing freight trucks. They're called bricks for a reason and the airflow profile doesn't provide much benefit. The narrow profile stock tires on base sedans and wagons is another aggravation, best dealt with using a different tire rather than sways.

    For my driving tastes (not liking to slow down going into corners), the types of roads I drive (multi lane highways and twisty mountain highways), the models I drive (turbo sedans and wagons) and types of loads I carry (my Volvos are hauling machines), I've gone for ipd sways on a number of our cars depending how it's going to be driven. I never upgraded my 144GL manual, but in hindsight wish I had. The 245 wagon automatic we had got the full upgrade and was well worth it on the twisty roads we often drive with a load. A few years later, I went for the ipd overload coils so I could haul even bigger loads without the nose in the air. Overload coils are definitely a harsher ride in the rear, such as going over speed bumps unloaded, even at a slow speed. When my 740 16-valve sedan came along (similar power to a turbo), I again went for ipd coils because it was used a lot on mountain highways, but with the already improved 700/900 series suspension and vehicle profile, the improvement is not as significant and probably not worth it. When our '95 940 wagons came along, the sways got moved onto the turbo wagon just because I had them. Hauling wagon loads and trailers, I again went for the overload coils. I now drive both 940 wagons, one turbo with ipd sways, one B230F NA with stock sways, loaded and unloaded, city and country highway, and do enjoy the easier handling with the ipd sways and coils. I would do it again on a 700/900 wagon, but not a sedan, especially a lower powered automatic B230F.

    If you think you'd enjoy a bit less roll in your 245 when doing twisty roads then I'd say go for the ipd sway bars. The poly bushings will come with them. It's your choice whether you want to try using the end link poly bushings, knowing you can always go back. The front sway poly bushings will normally need to be used with the larger diameter sways unless you source rubber ones. Use the silicone grease provided and you will need to regrease the front bushings every few years to prevent squeaking when the grease gets dirty and starts to dry out.

    Hope this long discussion helps.

    --
    Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now








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      Opinions Needed on Suspension Poly Bushings 1992 245 Wagon 200

      Hi Dave,

      That's for the detailed information. I do about 50/50 in town/curvy mountain highways, so I'll need to decide how much comfort I'm willing to give up.

      I forgot to mention that long ago I upgraded to a set of 1980s 15" turbo wheels, and I'm running Michelin 195/70r15 on them. They ride smoother and handle better by far, than the stock wheels and tires. I also have Yakima roof racks I load with kayaks and canoes, and lots of lumber from time to time. Talk about a high center of gravity.

      I've read about doubling the sway bars, but it seemed too precarious to be worth the effort, but I'm sure will provide very flat cornering.

      Thanks for everyone's ideas, and please keep them coming.








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    Opinions Needed on Suspension Poly Bushings 1992 245 Wagon 200

    Hi,

    I agree with PorkFace’s statements even though I have never tried suspension poly bushings.

    The Volvo engineering group did very well with incorporating compromises in building the 240 up from the successful one series.
    Of course cost of components are usually in the forefront but the underlying result is to remain with a vehicle that is to be sold to a populous of midrange consumers looking for a good everything that they can live with. Sort of like finding a MATE with what they have to offer.

    IPD has made a business out of rooting out consumers that think things can be made better in certain areas to do a certain function. Some of those appears to be racing or styling to people with ever changing needs for entertainment. Maybe you are one of those after 400 K.

    I do have a car with poly on the “engine accessory mountings” and they are definitely more firm to almost rigid of which is an improvement over the factory garbage, provided by their vendors, doing the same thing to Volvo.

    This brings us back around those IPD dreams of better sales and their worthy endeavors of enticement.
    A Sway bar stabilizer is on cars to transfer sway forces that going to one side of the vehicle downward to push the other side downward from rising up with that rolling action.
    It’s doing exactly what the terminology means and is already on your car and do not wear out, for the most part, just like other springs.
    If you are hauling more loading than the mid range load of passengers and that built in ride compromise then you will like the extra stability that IPD provides. Otherwise most of the time your car will not the need the modification. Same goes for the suspension bushings.

    The old bushings under the car now could be harder or softer than they were.
    Synthetic materials age like everything some more rapidly than others. Polyurethane, a newer technology, is formulated to compete across different spectrums of applications. It gives options to designers with its own unique quirks besides costs.
    As mentioned firmness and noise transfer come hand in hand while providing better weather resistance up to a point. Polyurethane formulating is plastic and varies with applications.
    Just as we have seen with clear coat paints peeling in sunlight while trying to reduce air borne volatiles in their coating. The Volvo 240 metallics cars suffered lower resale value as a result.

    A modification to any vehicle has to be accepted by the owner and any subsequent buyers or it sets on the resale market.
    By You wanting Poly bushings and a sway bar, this is or are small potatoes, compared to what I see young folks doing.
    Like ripping out the back seats to save weight or lowering the suspension without regard to road condition changes. V-8 engines and other trick items are personalization to the max.
    At that point the car starts to becoming “disposable” or over to a very limited resale market crowd.

    So your 400k compromised vehicle has done very well and you are still keeping it. Amazingly it’s a profound statement all in itself!

    IPD can be a friend or foe.

    Phil








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      Opinions Needed on Suspension Poly Bushings 1992 245 Wagon 200

      Thanks Porkface and Phil,

      Brilliant words Phil, and I agree with what you said about IPD, and I do like many things they offer. I was just curious about getting a little better handling as I live in a twisty turny world of sweeping hills and curves, and the stock suspension has felt lacking for awhile now. Could just be the worn out bushings all around and a gradual decline in handling to the point where I am now, really noticing it. I know this is not a sports car in any way, I've owned those and aren't trying to make the 245 into one. Just mostly curious before I buy bushings.

      The thought of feeling the relief pattern on a dime, make me want to flee from poly!








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    Opinions Needed on Suspension Poly Bushings 1992 245 Wagon 200

    all poly bushings will harshen the ride. roll over a dime and you could tell if it's heads or tails. track time only-ok. daily driver means a sore butt and wish for better seats.

    can't comment on bars as i had ipds on a 76 242 i bought already had them-so couldn't compare.







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