Hi,

Just an observation in all these post that have been very well done in passing knowledge and experiences.

The pictures of a Denso was a nice thought to put into this discussion.
My first experience with one was on a Honda Accord of a relative.
I was going to change brushes based on mileage.
Turns out they were fine.

I noticed right off that the slip rings were tremendously smaller in diameter.
I realized seeing that the design was rather revolutionary. (:)
The engine makes many revolutions and that slight change is equaling less surface area traveling under the brushes. So that explanation meant it does equal less brush wear!
I like the way those brushes were so accessible in those pictures.

Are all Denso’s alternators made the same way? Bosch is good but do some weird things within their model lines that are just crazy.
I have a theory on why its so, but it’s not proven unless you study the German nature using a Bosch parts catalog for either units.

If you think a little bit deeper you will come to a conclusion that the starter is used a whole lot less than the alternator despite the commutator being segmented.
It comes down to current draw and then you understand why there’s a big difference types of brushes and in functions.
It’s best to keep the car good tune so it keeps the starter in its own happy zone of even less use.

On the red blocks the starter is far down or out of sight to even consider one to be useable.
Neither one of the above electron manipulators come with any kind of visual or audio outside wear indicators.
Some Disc Brakes pad manufacturers did change things a little by using squealing clips.
Those got a lukewarm reception.

Now on a Toyota V8 engine the starter It’s up higher and actually on top. 360 degrees around the flywheel it can be anywhere.
I heard that it’s mounted in the very back, of course, but under the intake manifold.
If you wanted to be preventive person with your maintenance that would scare me worse than if it didn’t work someday.

I wonder with all these plastic shields on todays engines, including motorcycles, who approves this stuff with shop rates in mind?
I wonder if a person could you even hit any starter.
If it’s bigger than a billiards cue stick it better be made of steel with a insulated coating.

I have ONE 1/4 X 1&1/4 flat steel bar about 24” long. It’s wrapped up with wide black tape.
It’s in the shop or in a car if it starts giving me hints that others are talking about.

Yep, go ahead and take the trip and wait for hints to talk to-ya louder.
Choices are always making the world more fun.


Phil

I bought my daily driver (940t) with 175K in 2008.

I changed the alternator brushes at 253K (8/15) and at that time wondered about the starter brushes. I had a look and they were in great shape.

Today it has 313K and I think if I looked again the brushes would still be fine. As Dave indicated a starter isn't the top of my worry list as a couple of bumps from a mallet or length of 2x4 will get you home a number of times.

What I don't understand is how people neglect their alternators. When they run out of brush they let you down. Today's vehicles rely on a good supply of electrons. Without your battery getting charged while driving you won't get very far (especially at night). Those brushes are relatively easy to replace and they are usually the cause of the alternator not charging.

Randy
EDIT: In case you have a Denso alternator and want to check your brushes:
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/ElectricalDensoRebuild.htm
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Any twenty minute job is just a broken bolt away from a three day ordeal

My thoughts: 240K miles doesn't reflect alot of driving on a reliable 29-year-old car. Proactively replacing the starter may be excessive, but how about loosening the bolts on the thing as a part of late-life maintenance? New starters are available for $125 and cars going back to 1988 have compatible units. It's great having reliable 30-year-old cars
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89 240 wagon, 94 940, 300K, 94 940, 141K

You're almost exactly at the mileage where I've had to replace the starter in both my '95 940s in the last few years. Both cars have a 50/50 highway/city history as far as starter use is concerned. I'm near a wrecking yard and was able to get good used Bosch ones. In all my Volvo experience, you're right, they usually give advance notice for a number of weeks or months. At the beginning, a few more attempts with the key usually urges them into action. As soon as that starts happening, I start packing a length of 2x2, my equivalent of packing a spare without the expense. If it won't start after a couple tries then I use the Fonzi method, open the hood and beat firmly on the starter motor housing a number of times to nudge it off any dead spot. I can usually keep that game up for a number of weeks while I figure replacement. If it was me, I'm not one to replace parts pre-emptively, so I'd probably take my chances on a longer trip, but definitely carry a 2x2 and maybe a hammer. Admittedly, my wife's AAA membership is insurance if a tow was ever needed. Carrying a spare is an option, but replacing that on a trip may not be so simple. Access to the top bolt is difficult at the best of times, including shops inexperienced with Volvos and charging you by the hour.
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Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now

The mileage of the car hardly matters. with 243K on it you obviously drive a lot--or long distances. So--does that mean starting once or twice a day to log 250 miles -- or 7 times a day to log 50. You--or a shop could do a simple draw test starting up cold. The draw figure will tell you if the starter is struggling. If you must ease your mind over the issue I would only opt for a Bosch brand remanufactured unit. Rebuilts are notoriously chancy--often only replacing totally worn items. The Bosch remanufactured units are truly remanufactered. Find a vendor that carries them. Or--find a good used original and carry a spare.--Dave