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Diff. clunk 200 1993

1993 245 with 192K with Dana/Spicer 1031 differential with the standard 3.73 ratio.I have replaced the AW70 trans. end yoke and also replaced all 3 u-joints recently.Changed the diff oil twice since I got the car with 187K. now 192K
I still have a clunk when putting it in reverse or drive. Seems to have a little too much play at the diff. end when you rotate the driveshaft up & back.
I bought the car 2 years ago and worried that the previous owner never changed the punkin' juice and need something replaced internally in the differential.
Whadda 'ya say ??








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Diff. clunk 200 1993

Hi,

“ Whadda 'ya say ??”.
You asked, Hmmm 🤔 probably too much already! (:-)

I don’t have a lot of experience in working on differentials so I don’t quite get your meaning of rotating the driveshaft “ up and back”?
I would say a rotational turn in a clockwise motion and then in counterclockwise motion to find backlash between the pinion and ring gears.
If you have roaring then the ring and spider gear shimming might need to be reset to a new wear pattern. You are not talking this stuff!

If a backlash specification is excessive, the clunk you are getting will also be accompanied with a metallic clank sound! A sharp metal against metal clang and tinny ringing of something hollow!
The hollow sound is similar to a snare ring of a tambourine? Just trying to equate, sorry!

The pinion gear is held in place by a crush sleeve on that input shaft.
If a seal has been replaced sometimes a crush sleeve may gotten done too. In that case it may have not been torqued down properly and can be one cause of a clunk.
It takes a very large (300 foot lbs.) torque wrench to wind that puppy down to a specification on some light truck rear ends. A passenger car might be a little less, but just as important!

Another clunk can be of the whole axle, or movement there of, is more likely to be what you are hearing or feeling in the seat of your pants! (:-) Starting with two radial support anti-torque rods, going forward and aft, will have four rubber bushings!
Be super suspicious of them if you can twist the rods on their bushings a lot by your bare hands. They need to be a very firm and achieving a solid mounting.
In bad cases, a clunk can come from them but then, no clang!

The trailing arms under the rear axle also use rubber and are known to go bad.
If you drive through a driveway approach at an angle and twist the rear axle higher and lower from different directions clunk or pop you have bad bushings someplace.
There are six so far and eight all together.
I have never heard of issues with the Panhard tracking rod for making clunks or for them going bad for that matter?
But I’m sure there can be cases, of it, as their rubbers wouldn’t be offered for replacements.

As far as the oil NOT getting replaced that is NOT as a big of a deal as one would think!
In the old days, on domestic vehicles, it was normal to never change the oil but only add some!
Nothing or a few ounces or less! Then charge the customer for a half to one full pint.
They don’t know squat!
It too was done for extra profit back then! Shysters started life with everyone else!

One would do a replacement if the rear end ever became submerged above the top air vent cap or the axles ends while launching a boat!
The oil never wears out but if changing is desirable due to condensation worries it can cause seals to leak, so consequently in those days of having a cars only going around 120,000 in its life time and after an engine rebuild!
Rear ends didn’t get changed but only serviced, but remember cars got their oil changed in 3,000 mile intervals too!
Today that’s sinful!

It’s interesting that you have changed the oil twice!
That must mean that your rear end is now as clean inside, as if you had used Charmin tissue!
(:-). Differential oil sure does have a bear of a stink!

Phil












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Diff. clunk 200 1993

Phil,
I'm in the same boat without too much experience with diffs. since usually you don't need to do anything to them except change the gear oil. Gimme a head gasket replacement or rebuilding SU HS6's !
I did replace every bushing in that rear axle,trailing arms has including panhard last year.
With or without the driveshaft installed ...there is maybe 3/16" to 1/4" play when "twist" that pinion seal flange left and right. My thoughts are similar to yours that the ring & pinion needs adjustment or replacement. No clank or hollow sound that at least that I can hear. Something isn't correct within the parameters of that 'punkin. I can say that since Halloween is in close proximity.
Duck









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Diff. clunk 200 1993

Hi Duck!

I think the advice from PlanetMan would be the only way to gain some direction on what might be going on under there short of opening up the Pumpkin.

It seems to me wear should be contributed more to the spiders gears or the pinion since it takes so many more revolutions for them to make versus the ring gear one!

It’s going to be difficult to tell where or which one, of the five out of six is more loose.
You have to lock up the ring gear to feel the play on the pinion. The cover off makes that easy.
The ring gear only freezes when it has push the spiders and they have put force on the axles though their respective engagements.

The 1/4 to 3/16 movement on the largest peripheral diameter of the pinion shaft may not seem to great, when considering all the backlashes being combined to get all tightened up!
Clearances are needed for lubrication film and expansion.
Clack is not wanted, really!
Like a popping knee joint, who likes one of those! (:)

If one spider gear is more loose than the others then that’s the one that gets to rattle my itself.
Of course, How much it affects the ring gear to make it sound like a bell is only one question?

A spider gear thrust washer keeps them from jumping back away in the yokes.
One or two might be all of what’s worn in there?
Unless you have flat out worn gear teeth, all can be shimmed back closer with some due diligence for cheap in this case! Some Dykem dye or Prussian blue does the tracking.

Setting the strike pattern back up to specification can only be done this way, with shims or washers as each axle housing, coming off a factory floor, has variances of length and to that third member alignment of which has to be a right angle rotation!
Thrust forces are going everywhere!

A cover pull and inspection is the most definitive way to “play that tune” while watching.
Like PlanetMan said about a lift,
Leaving one axle on the ground and lifting the other one in a succession to each other might be a method.
Having the drive shaft holding the ring gear, locked up from moving in either direction, removes the pinion to its play, only?
I think that’s where he suggests the stethoscope, on a pumpkin sides, with each axle rocked for play separately?
The clunk might only be one of the two spider gears with looseness!
I want to say there are two Intermediary ones or idlers, for lack of better terminology! (:)
The other two on the axles are called driven. The ring and pinion (or worm drive gear) are spiral cut gears.
But, Their all bevel gears to get the 90 degrees going!

I’ll be out here awaiting your find!

Phil








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Diff. clunk 200 1993

I suggest you get the car on a lift, preferable a drive on so the car is on the wheels and use the ole eyeball method. If that doesn't work use a stethoscope or listening hose to see if you can locate the noise while it's still on the lift.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com








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Diff. clunk 200 1993

My 1982 320k miles has that problem. It worried me and 2 years ago I opened up the rear cover for inspection.

In my case it is the pin that cross the 2 transfer gears that has most of the play in the differential body. I found very little metal particles on the magnet and there is no special noise on the highway. I made sure the pin lock screw is secure, the pinion and ring gear are nice and shiny, and add new lubricant. At my age I now forget about it for good.







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