|
|
|
Hello,
I am planning to change 14" tire to 15" on Virgo wheels on my Volvo 240. I think there are locator pins where wheels are installed. Can I have the technician remove those pins?
Volvo mechanic gave me 4 tiny bolts to screw on in place of locator pins. Is there a reason for doing so?
I ordered tires through Costco. I am wondering whether Costco installers would know what to do. (I read one story somewhere that the uninformed technician just destroyed the pins, causing minor damages on the wheels.)
Thanks.
|
|
-
|
|
I am running Virgos on my 1992 245 and I found that the locator pins could stay in place just fine. Virgos have at least one deeper indentation (slot) in which it will fit. Look on the inside of the rims, and it becomes clear.
The upside down placement of the rims while removing and fitting the tyres has already been mentioned here. I would like to add that you must also make sure that the fitters do not clamp the rims on the inside as you could end up with damage like this:
|
|
-
|
|
|
Sparro may be the person who contacted me through my Craigslist ad for Volvo parts and agreed to buy 4 Virgo rims. The small (6mm) bolts that attach the rotor to the hub are there to keep the rotor true to the hub when removing a wheel. They are not necessarily needed but there as a convenience and I would replace the pins with the short bolts. FURTHER - It is important for the installer to know that the Virgo rims must have the tires installed (and removed) from the reverse side. There is a decal affixed to the inside of the rim stating this requirement but of course that wouldn't be seen till the old tires are removed. Make sure you speak to the installer--maybe provide a written note. -- Dave
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thank you Dave for your comments. I got these wheels more than 5 years ago, from Ebay I think.
I was not going to install Virgos but changed my mind because I cannot seem to find 14" Michelin all season tires any longer. I will watch them carefully if Costco installs the tires. (Maybe I should take tires to Volvo mechanic?)
Jay
|
|
-
|
|
|
Yes there is a slot in the hub face of the Virgo for the pin. Having watched some tyre fitters wrestling with a Virgo and the U/S tyre I can't emphasize enough about the need to reverse fit the tyre. They eventually took a hack saw to it. I'd never heard of this before. I'd been running 14's and got another Virgo for the spare when I swapped over. I believe that the Virgos originally had a sticker on them to give this info.
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=312277
|
|
-
|
|
|
Some, but not all Virgos, have cutouts for the locating pins. The really old ones don't. I have some that I think were made in Finland instead of Germany and don't have cutouts.
Also if you are getting tires put on Virgos at a shop that uses an older type of tire changer I would bring a piece of cardboard cut out to fit over the spokes of the rim and ask them to put it over the spokes. Almost every Virgo out there has dings in the spokes from being dropped on tire changers. They don't realize at the tire shops because the back is usually down and it does not matter.
Most good tire shops today have edge holding changers that are less likely to do that damage.
|
|
-
|
|
|
I'm just back from a trip and not sure if this was covered---the Virgo rim tires must be removed and installed from the back side of the rim. I believe there's a decal on the inside of the rim -- too late for the installer to see -- you must tell them and insist upon it!!!!!--Dave
|
|
-
|
|
|
Yes, it was covered several times and it's a well known fact among Volvo 200-series enthusiasts. A good tyre fitter once told me that he knew of other rims with the same quirk, IIRC he mentioned BMW.
And when the same tyre fitter's employees then started fitting tyres on my freshly painted Virgos, I noticed that they were putting the first rim on the machine the wrong way up anyway, so I had to remind them.
Needless to say, you must not only tell and insist, but you must be present too. If they don't want you around while they're working, go to another fitter.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hi,
Every poster on this thread is absolutely right from their experiences.
It shouldn’t make any difference if you tell the tire shops that a tire installs in some sort of reverse method.
The operators “Should Be Trained” to look for an extra diameter in the middle of the rim known as the “Drop Center” diameter.
This area is purposefully made in a smaller diameter than the two “sealing bead diameters” for the tires.
This area is made to let the tire drop in and move over to be off center to the outer rims center lines.
Both outer seating diameters are the same size so the tire has to dip at an angle.
It’s the angle that dictates the location on the “drop center.”
This center diameter should be located closer to one side of the rim than the other and this constitutes which way the tire has to be UP in order for the tires beads to fit over one of the rims diameters.
If you don’t see this purposeful recess, as the whole diameter can be smaller between the outer rims, that diameter should still be small enough to shift the tire.
Some rims are made this way as it provides several design options for setting the bolting circle or the “offset of the rim” for different car models for the same manufacturers.
This also allows the machine so cause the least damage by location grippers located in the base of various holding fixtures. A lot of machines rotate the whole rim and not using a rotating bar to pull the tire on or off.
Finally, almost all of the more modern tire changers can use nylon faced grippers and have power rotating push bars but their “Duck Bills,” are being made with some molded polymer surfaces that reduce drag on the bead surfaces tear less and the aluminum rims will not get their coatings scuffed!
There have been days in the past and maybe still are, where you had to sign a waver for some aluminum rims before the tires would be replaced in shops.
This was due due to liability insurance covering a wheel coming off the vehicle or even losing your hub caps! I had one shop replace a hubcap due to getting the innermost fingers to engage the axle hub.
The shop scrounged around their salvage yard connections and really complain that just the inner snap in hub was $40 plus the cap!
But he didn’t want his insurance to go up, so his whinnying about “Volvo having weird ways” didn’t mean much to me!
Things are always changing and so more training is always necessary.
I’m in retirement but not dead, so I’m always training or learning something, even if it’s just trivial in the whole scheme of things!
(:-)
Phil
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thank you for great deal of information!!
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be MIKE
on
Fri May 7 12:40 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
|
|
I have TWO 245's - one has 195-60-15 the other 195-65-15 - both work well !
In the past tried 205's - too wide - poor in snow - and too much drag - every time I hit a minor bump car would drift off centre. 195's rectified this - the alignment was not the issue
|
|
-
|
|
|
95-60-15 or 195-65-15? The 65 drops your revs a bit when cruising and offers a better ride due to extra tyre wall flexibility. Points in its favour IMO.
|
|
-
|
|
|
The sizes you mentioned here seemed to be more suitable for replacing the big 185R14 wagon wheels rather than the smaller sedan wheels. So, out came the manual from my 1992 245...
For that model year, the manual lists the following factory options:
sedan:
185/70R14 or
185/65R15
wagon:
185/65R15 or
185R14
185/70R14 and 185/65R15 only differ about 1.2%, with the latter being bigger.
So, if your car is a sedan, you might as well go for that one on the Virgos without thinking any further. I believe Sparro has a sedan.
However, if you have a wagon, the difference between the two options seems to be rather big. The 15" option being 4.7% smaller in diameter. This had me wonder about the differentials used.
My 245 has a 3.91:1 ratio diff and it came on the big 185R14 tyres (now 195/65R15). A while ago I borrowed a 245 with 3.54:1 diff. It was on 185/65R15 tyres, and sure enough, it revved noticeably lower at the same speeds, despite the smaller tyres.
So a little caution when changing tyre sizes is recommended, and not just from a "will they fit?" point of view.
|
|
-
|
|
|
I am curious, Grey 245, about the years of the cars you mention. I would assume that your car with the 3.91 is an early year (like my B21 M46 equipped 1980 245) when auto and stick shift cars had the same rear. As far as I know from the many owners manuals I've accumulated a switch came a little bit later into the 1980's when auto cars (AW 70/71) came with a 3.73 (like the '93 245 into which I've installed an Oldsmobile 215 V8) and stick shift cars came with a 3.31 (like the '89 245 M47 equipped parts car I have and earlier B23 M46 cars). I was surprised to see you list the borrowed car with a 3.54 as I was only aware of that ratio used in 260 models with auto (BW55 like my original V8 conversion in a '76 265). With that car I later installed a rear from a 1975 164 BW55 (3.31). I have a Camaro T5 gearbox in the V8 replacing the '63 Olds auto that was in my first V8 conversion. The V8 is loads of fun with the 3.73 but I've been considering the parts car's 3.31 for more relaxed cruising and better MPG's. -- Dave
|
|
-
|
|
|
To be exact: I have a 1992 245 with a B200F, M47 and 3.91:1 final drive.
I am pretty sure that these are the original parts for this car. The B200F was only offered in certain markets like Italy but also in my country. Compared to the B230F, the B200F isn't really missing out on power (111 vs 116 bhp), but torque is significantly lower at 158 vs 185 Nm, or 117 vs 136 lbft. The latter is probably the reason why Volvo chose a taller diff for the 2 litre engine.
The borrowed car (B230F, M47) is another story. Despite having 510,654 km (317,306 mi) on the odometer (yes, I made photos), the drivetrain felt less worn than my own 245 at half that mileage. Especially the gear change from neutral to first was much lighter, and the feel of the stick betrayed a younger or rebuilt gearbox.
I asked the owner about it and he told me the actual mileage should be something like ~600,000 km (~373,000 mi). It turned out he had replaced the engine and gearbox with items from a donor car.
That was a 1993 model and I must admit that mentioning the 3.54:1 final drive ratio is a guess on my part based on the revs the engine made on those smaller tyres. I can't remember if I actually went under the car and looked at the sticker on the axle (but knowing myself, I may very well have done that).
However, all the axle ratios 3.31:1; 3.54:1; 3.73:1 and 3.91:1 were available right until the end of the 200-series (I am looking at the parts catalogue of the 1988 and on model years right now and they're all there).
Which car got what and why seems a bit complicated, note the usage of the words "most" and "usually" in this post, implying that a wide range of combinations was possible.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks for responding to my query. I hadn't given any thought to what is available elsewhere in the world. To answer one question for you (since my original V8 was in the 265 with 3.54 and I had a tach -- in top gear (the Olds auto 1:1) or 4th with a Volvo transmission it's 20mph for every 1,000 rpm---3k at 60mph. When I switched to the 3.31 it was 23mph/1k RPM -- Dave
|
|
-
|
|
|
Funny you should mention the speed per 1000 rpm in a given gear as I was just looking at that.
The manual that came with my 1992 model year 245 (which has model year 1991 printed on the cover, BTW) says this (I'll only mention 4th gear):
Speeds in km/h at 17 r/s (1000 rpm):
Gearbox: 5-speed (M47)
Final drive ratio:
3.54: 1
33 (20.5 mph)
3.73:1
31 (19.3 mph)
3.91:1
30 (18.6 mph)
17 r/s is actually 1020 rpm, but who cares? They probably meant 16 2/3 r/s.
It doesn't mention the 3.31:1 ratio, so probably wouldn't have been available over here.
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be MIKE
on
Sun May 9 04:16 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
|
|
Good point - yes both are 245s - WAGONS - the 65s are nicer
|
|
-
|
|
|
My change from 14" alloys to 15" Virgos (1992 240 SE Estate) was from 185/14 to 195/60/15 for the Virgos. I bought them as a set, tyres less than 1000 miles. The diameter of the 185/14 was more than the Virgo combo and that was another reason why I would go for the 65 over the 60. The 60's did give a more spritely feel to the car due to the slightly lower gearing. The difference in the diameter/height of the wheels/tyres when stood side by size was obvious and I wasn't expecting the Difference to be so obvious. I think the 185 tyres you list in the first part of the post are possibly for narrower steel wheels.
Remember that any 240/700/900 RWD wheels up to when the changed to a FWD type on the final V90/S90 will fit your car so a huge choice of patterns and sizes. My Virgo purchase came about due to the seller changing to 17" Pegasus wheels. It looked very nice.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Volvo did go to 205's on the 940T - but those were a 55 profile on a 16" rim. They worked well on the '92 I drove for a while. - Dave
|
|
-
|
|
|
No tire shop, including Costco, knows that the tires get installed on the back side of the rim. Tell the shop manager and remind the person doing the install.
I hope you have the same diameter tire that the 14" has. Police don't care if your speedometer is 5mph too slow!
--
Keeping it running is better than buying new
|
|
-
|
|
|
Klaus, as far as I know, the overall diameter remains the same 185/70-14 and 195/60-15. I've been switching back and forth with different size rims on all my 140 and 240 cars. - Dave
|
|
|
|
|
