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745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

1990 745 Rex Regina system.
Symptom: i was stopped at the light and the engine stopped running. will not restart.
things i checked:
no spark at plugs
fuel pump humms for a second or two when key put into on position.
brand new RSR
the tach ticks while cranking the engine (this means a good CPS ?)
put a new set of plug wires on.
cap and rotor are less than a year old.
connected a test light on wire coming from the coil - while cranking the engine the light will flash intermittently.

i am stumped as to why there is no spark at the plugs.
what can i check/replace next?

thanks for any advice.








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    745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

    If you have not found the problem yet, install a new CPS - the three times that one of our 5 700s failed to start, it was the CPS.

    (And I do not like to install parts to fix problems)








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      Distributor Rotor is bad. 700

      Replace the rotor. I bought a brand new complete distributor with a new rotor and cap. One month later the rotor went bad. It has a resistor imbedded into the rotor top. Check between it for electrical continuity. Ohms should also be around 1K. If your have spark at the coil and no spark through the plug wires then it will be the rotor. It's the distribution device for the plugs. Will not transfer electric when bad. Easy Fix !








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        Distributor Rotor is bad. / distributor cap center carbon post 700

        Also check that your distributor cap has it's center carbon pin. Sometimes they fail by cracking or fall out.








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    Unable to edit my last post... 700

    I wanted to edit to ask you how old the spark plugs are?
    --
    Any twenty minute job is just a broken bolt away from a three day ordeal








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      Unable to edit my last post... 700

      Any progress on this issue? I did have a problem with the distributor on my '90 745, seal was letting oil get past and onto the contacts in the cap, the oil shorted the spark but only on one cylinder. Do you have no spark on all 4 cylinders?
      The rebuild for the distributor was not very difficult and described well in the 700/900 section.








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      Unable to edit my last post... 700

      can't remember for sure. at least 5 years and maybe 30k on them. they spark real good when connected directly to the coil wire.








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        Unable to edit my last post... 700

        If you have a good hot spark out of the coil but not at the spark plug then it sounds like you have narrowed the problem down to one or more of the following:
        The hot coil lead
        The distributor cap
        The rotor
        The spark plug lead(s) - All four? I doubt it.
        The spark plug(s) - All four?I doubt it.

        Is that a Bosch rotor and cap?








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    745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

    I forget how you checked for spark at the plug but as boxvolvo suggests I would check again with the plugs grounded.

    I would pull all of them and make sure they are well grounded. Work in a relatively dark environment which will make the spark easier to see. With all the plugs out the engine will spin rapidly and not only should you see all the plugs sparking you might be able to hear them as well.

    Randy
    --
    Any twenty minute job is just a broken bolt away from a three day ordeal








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    745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

    If you have spark out of the coil, but none down to the plugs. I would double check cap & rotor. Were they Bosch? After markets have nothing but issues.
    --
    Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.








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      745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

      They were not Bosch. i did pull the cap and everything looked ok. i will do it again. guess i could buy the OE cap and rotor. cheaper than a coil for sure.








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        745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

        You are correct, a bouncing tach and flickering test light on the coil usually indicates a functioning CPS. You did not say if you checked the spark on the center coil wire. If you have spark there, put the CPS on the back burner and look elsewhere.

        Given a functioning ignition through the coil, but no spark at the plugs, my next best guess is timing, especially when the breakdown is sudden, and happens when the car is running.

        You didn't say if you confirmed the belt was intact and turning the cam. Another way to confirm the cam is turning is to take the distributor cap off and watch the rotor. If the rotor is turning while the engine is cranking, the cam is turning and the belt is intact.

        If all that is good, suspect a jumped timing belt.










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          745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

          Box,
          i took everything off and check to make sure the timing marks lined up correctly. they did.
          even though i had checked the coil wire with a light, i did it again by hooking the coil wire to a spark plug to see the spark. the spark jumped the gap fine and looked bright and strong to my untrained eye.
          so then i removed the fairly new (after market) dist. cap. cranked the engine and watched the rotor turn. seemed to turn slowly but i have no experience here.
          i checked the resistance of the rotor and cap. rotor = 980 ohms, cap = 7 ohms.
          no idea what the specs should be, can't find any solid info on internet. Does anyone know if those readings are good? or have a known good cap and rotor they can test?








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            745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

            “... i took everything off and check to make sure the timing marks lined up correctly. they did....”

            If you are using the timing marks on the crank damper pulley to verify timing be aware that on a lot of the 700/900 cars that timing mark may be unreliable. That’s because the outer pulley ring has a way of spinning independently of the inner hub part due to deterioration of the rubber isolation between the two parts. If the engine would at least run you can paint a reference line across the inner hub, rubber section, and outer ring and see if there is any slippage after running for a while. In your case you could pull out the #1 spark plug and compare piston TDC vs the timing indicated TDC.








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            745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

            Resistance values. Distributor should be near zero on all posts. 7 is probably close enough. You didn't mention if you checked all five posts.

            Rotor. Should have a resistance value stamped on top of the rotor. I don't have any around here - ran out of red block volvos about four years ago - but I recall seeing a 2K stamp on one. Different years may have different values.

            You seem to have eliminated the usual suspects. I would probably go back and check spark at the plug wires again, using the old plug/ laying on the manifold method, making sure that all the distributor wires are fully seated. If still no spark, and the timing belt is properly aligned and turning, the next suspect is the distributor. Maybe something sheared where the shaft mounts into the cam? Can you turn the shaft by hand?












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              745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

              i tried to turn the dist. by hand using the rotor. would not budge at all.
              nothing written on the after market rotor. i should just check the 4 posts for continuity?
              really don't want to buy a new Bosch cap and rotor, but guess i am going to have to so i can eliminate the last question mark in the ignition components. somebody is going to get a nice new OE cap and rotor when i have to start parting her out. :(








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                745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

                You won't be able to turn the engine via the rotor. Too much resistance.
                Some things to check:
                Are your plugs wet or dry when you try to start?
                Wet=ignition issue
                Dry=Fuel delivery
                Did you try what was suggested via the pull a plug and lay it near a grounding point and see if you have spark?
                --
                Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.








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                  745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

                  "...You won't be able to turn the engine via the rotor. Too much resistance."

                  Unless the distributor shaft was sheared. In which case the rotor would turn by hand.









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                  745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

                  the plug look a little wet when i looked. more moist than soaking wet. yes i looked for spark at plug when out of the car and cranking engine - no spark.








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                    745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

                    Then based on what you posted. Your issue has to be the distributor since you said you got good spark out of the coil.
                    --
                    Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.








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          745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

          Hello boxvolvo,
          Really good info. i am familiar with the fast whine of a broken timing belt :(
          so i am sure the belt is turning the cam, but don't know about it having slipped.
          i was idling at a stop light when she just stopped running. no strange noises - running fine one second - shut off the next. i will make sure the timing marks are lined up correctly tomorrow (had to tow it to my sisters house).
          i am not sure what you mean by checking the center coil wire. all i did was pull the coil wire off the dist. cap and put a test light in between the end of the coil wire and ground. my sister cranked the engine and i saw the light go on and off. i kind of hope its the belt. it has been suggested it could be the after market dist. cap and rotor i put on about a year ago. $80+ for the Bosch OE -ouch! But really, $80 is very doable if the car would be up and running again.








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            745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

            Some clarification.

            One test for ignition is to hook one lead of the test light to the ground side of the coil (terminal 1) and crank the engine. A flickering light, like a bouncing tach, usually indicates a working ignition system to the coil.

            I usually test the center coil wire one of two ways. First is with a timing light. If I don't have the timing light handy, I put a spark plug in the distributor end of the wire, lay the plug on the manifold, and crank. (I used to hold the exposed end of the wire to the block, but went to the spark plug method after getting lit up one rainy night.)

            Any idea how long since a timing belt change?

            Good luck.








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            745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

            Something to check that won’t cost any $’s......
            The internal connections inside the Rex coils have a way of causing trouble with age. I had that problem on our long-gone 740 Rex-Regina. It can be disassembled via the two torx screws that are positioned caddy cornered to each other. As I recall you might have to unbolt the whole assembly from its mounting. Once inside the coil/power stage you will find two or three contacts that come together when it’s fully assembled. Clean both the pins on the one half and the receiving “clips” on the other side. I remember tweaking the clips with needle nose pliers to create a more firm connection with the pins. Clean the oxidation off of all mating surfaces including where the assembly mounts to the car. The whole job takes about 15 minutes max.








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        745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

        https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/ElectricalIgnition.htm#IgnitionCoilFailureandTesting

        https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/ElectricalIgnition.htm#ReginaCoilPackCleaning
        --
        Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.








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    745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

    Broken timing belt seems possible given the symptoms. - Dave








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      745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

      To check timing belt integrity, remove the oil fill cap and look inside at the cam shaft while rotating the crank over by hand, I have just done it by pulling on the belts, if the cam shaft moves, belt is ok.

      If timing belt is ok I would suspect the Crank Position Sensor next. Its bolted into the bell housing with one bolt and connected to the wiring harness. Somewhat difficult to reach at the back of the engine.








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        745 no start, with no spark at the plugs 700

        Yes, i guess the CPS is my next purchase. Although i am sure i have read in at least one post that if the tach will tick when the engine is being cranked that the CPS is good. i am pretty sure its the original CPS (i have only had the car since 2000) so it would not hurt to put in a new one since there are probably well over 250000 miles on her by now.







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