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Hello Again,
Replaced my shocks in the front struts. First time I'm ever dealt with the struts, not the easiest of jobs, I will say. The biggest pain was getting the strut top nut off once I had the strut unit on its side. The volvo strut pass thru 24 mm tool was great, but that Torx head on the old shock was not so forgiving. On the old ones, it somewhere between a T40 and T45 and on the first strut, I about stripped it out and had to port-a-band the shock once I compressed the spring.....somewhat dangerous, but it worked.
THe new shocks from Bilstein were honest T45 Torx heads so that made installation easier. I've read up on the eternal 15 ft-lb vs 115 ft-lb torque dilemna....and went with 20.
Here's where it gets clunky:
upon finishing installation and driving the car after, I could still here a clunk on the passenger's side from the wheel area. THought it was maybe the bearing or something, but upon taking the wheel and hub off that proved false as the bearing was fine.
Upon physically 'bouncing' both the struts from above, the drivers side was very much more resistant and made no sound while the passenger's side bounced a bit more, not a great deal, but also made a weird popping sound around the top nut. This one was torqued to 15-20 ft-lbs.
I have not taken it out yet, going to soon, but I'd jsut like to ask others if theres a possibility it could be the control arm?
There was always a clunk on the passenger's side when going over bumps and what not, that's why I replaced the front shocks.
I'm just wondering if perhaps its the control arm and its bushings causing this clunking...?
Either way, I will be taking it out and examining and seeing whats up with the shock and strut unit and probably torquing down to higher, around the 50 ft-lb mark.
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I'll guess you installed Bilstein (B6) HDs into your 1989 240 strut housings?
Not the Bilstein (B4) Touring?
I ask as Bilstein (B6) does not fit in the 1988, certainly 1989+ Volvo 240 strut housings. Ask me the horror of how I know. Won't fit 1990 and 1991. The DeCarbons, now NLA for Volvo, are the same length and diameter.
Use an impact driver to loosen the nut threaded onto the the top of the strut cartridge piston. Use again to apply torque to the nut.
About that nut, on some strut cartridges, there is variance to the conical section on the strut cartridge piston below the threaded section the large top nut engages. Variance as in length. If you have also replaced the strut mounts (Volvo PN 1272455) with crappy OEM or crappy aftermarket, the bearing varies in height (or depth) as the conical, or round tapered section, varies. So washers.
That conical, or round, tapered section, engages the inside diameter of the strut mount (Volvo PN 1272455) bearing. I've found on the soft and complaint made in Mexico Sachs, yet also Bilstein HD (Billys, Billys, Billys as this forum went on and on in the 1998-early 2000s period) and Bilstein Touring (the best value for 240), you may need some washers under the nut, so the nut takes up torque and the conical interface between the strut cartridge.
Also, with proper strut cartridge piston boot to limit ambient condition exposure, Bilstein HD allows water intrusion into the strut through the seal around the piston. Water freezes. The damper seizes until warmer weather or a longer duration drive.
Hit that pothole or, as I did, a drain grate in the middle of the terrible Saint Louis I-44 forever under construction, and the HD damper valve body breaks and remains seized. Bad fro strut mount. Terrible Bilstein HD. Awful.
Read other forums, certainly the BMW forums, and the same thing happens. Water intrudes into the damper, cold weather freeze, and the Billy's, Billy's, Billy's Damper seizes.
If you have the $$$, get Koni and get the accordion boots and the washer used with the orange or yellow DeCarbon damper sold as an option on Turbo 240.
I have had to use heavy durable washers, where the washer inside diameter is slightly larger than the piston threaded section, or a little larger, so the nut, when tight, pulls the conical section through the strut mount bearing inside diameter to torque.
My dawg how I miss real Made in German Boge Turbo Gas. Not the now no more, NLA, Made in Mexico Sash Super Touring iPd hawked as Bogr Turbo Gas. The Sachs Advantage that iPd soled as Boge Automatics are not. Real Boge Automatics, a low pressure gas charged damper, would click, more so the rear dampers.
See in images at post #19 in this thread on Turbobricks. My same namesake here as their at Turbobricks. See the image of the strut mount with callout point to the washer. Also, the former quality strut mount with ball bearings to the top. A little silicon grease in there is good for bearing and not hard on bushing material. Reinstall the dust cap!
Volvo OEM strut mounts .. early Failure?
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=315522
Else, as Uncle CB says.
I was up until three AM CT working, more or less. So, the wandering reply. Sorry. The earl grey tea is not applying the benefits of theobromine-spawned wakefulness.
Questions?
Hope that halps.
Ahhhhh, civilized temperatures in arches and baseball cardinals city. Go Braves. To the yunkyard!
Sneezinz Greetinz!
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They are the Bilstein Touring ones. They fit pretty well. Couldn't get the gland nut down all the way because the shock does not sit fully in.
Since the shock cartridge sits about an 1/8th of an inch above where the gland nut threads start, the gland nut only goes down about 1/2 way. But its super tight half way.
What's crazy is the drivers side sounds and bounces fine. No clunks, no over bounce, just right. The passenger's side has a little too much bounce and makes a clunk/slap sound over bumps. I haven't taken it out just yet to examine...will do that this weekend when I have a chance. Not driving it further than a few blocks currently.
Personally I think it has somethinkg to do with the control arm but who am I?
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You have your replies.
That the gland nut does not thread in fully may be your clue.
Barely one turn or less remaining above the strut tube edge, as do Sachs and Bilstein Touring do on two of my 240s with the 1988 (or 1987) or maybe 1989, when the strut tube became a short length on the inside. The diameter also shrank, with the strut tube tapering as you move to the bottom of it where the damper seats.
Did you check for play or movement of the strut cartridge piston under the strut mount dust cap? Any sort of gap under the nut that secures the strut piston cartidge to the strut mount will make a knock sound. Didja glance or review the link to the Turbobricks forum thread about early failure of the Volvo strut mount? See the images of the washer under the nut? I'm using both Volvo the original ball bearing open ot the sky race strut mounts and crappy Meyle strut mounts with Bilstein Touring and HD. In all instances I had to place washer under that nut.
As CB instructs, use the Bilstein (B4) Touring gland nuts with the Bilstein Touring strut dampers?
Did you inspect the strut housing tube interior before insertion? Any thing inside?
Though an issue loaded with ambiguity, 1989 240 should use the limited depth and diameter strut tube. Bilstein B6 HD and the Orange or Yellow DeCarbons won't fit in there. Though not your concern.
You did not insert spacers under the Bilstein Touring? Volvo uses a spacer for Boge and the modern same form factor Bilstein Touring and the made in Mexico Sachs. No need for that spacer.
I guess you removed original factory-installed Boge front struts? Or some other damper brand?
At the control arm, the large, or rear, bushing can fail in a few ways. Usually, the center metal tube the bushing material adheres to fails. These are usually replaced once at 80k to 120k miles and again at another 80k to 100k miles. With solid bushing, apply final torque of the bushing retaining hardware on an alignment rack.
Check the steering rack retaining U-bolts? The nuts securing the you bolts can loosen in time yet you'd note inaccurate steering or other unwanted play at the steering wheel?
Did you inspect the control arm bushing during replacement? With stabilizer bar end links disconnected, you may be able to move the strut assembly downward below the fender wheel arch. I usually support this using a trolley (floor) jack on wheels; sometimes not. Yet with the assembly disconnected I can tell whether the rear (large) control arm bushing are failed or not.
You'll need to inspect for cause. Inspection may require disassembly.
Easy to do is removal of of the three bolts that secure the large, rear control arm bushing, 'box'. All else remains secured. If you can move the box around or slip it away from the control arm, replace both control arm bushings.
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Kittysgreyvolvo,
Thanks for the words of advice. I recently took the strut assembly out and inspected everything. I worote to CB and detailed my findings.
Basically, even before I took the strut assembly out, I noticed that the bump stop was not sitting at an uppermost position on the shock. It was stuck down below the smaller diameter portion of the cartidge and on the larger diameter part and not touching the bottom of the upper seat.
Also, comparing the top nuts of the problem-side strut and no-problem-side strut, the problem ones top nut was much further down on the shocks threads.....? You'd think this would be good.
Anyways, I took everything out, inspected the rear control arm bushings. They seem fine. No play on the control arm and the box that's held in by three bolts to the bushing and car was not loose or damaged at all.
Examined the shock while still locked in by the gland nut and it wasn't loose or damaged, very springy and strong.
Put everything back together and this time, matched the amount of threads down for the top nut and put another washer between the upper seat and the bearing mount in addition to the one btween the top nut and top side of bearing mount.
Tightened everything up and upon physical inspection (pressing the wheel down from above), the strut now gave the proper quick dampening rebound and made no noises or pops of any sort.
Drove it and the clunking, slapping sound was gone also!
I'm not sure exactly what happened, if I had overtightened the top nut and this cause the bumpstop to be forced below where it should sit, or if there was an issue between the upper seat and the bearing mount plate....
Either way, it seems to be good currently, and knock on wood, hopefully it stays that way for another 50-100K!!
Thanks for your help,
Marc
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Good news!
Though no need for a bump stop with Bilstein (B4) Touring.
I have Bilstein (B4) Touring all around on my 1992 240 GL sedan.
All works fine save for the damper mounts rattling on the upper studs or maybe the lower trailing arm securing hardware.
Welp, glad it all works for you.
Get to install a used orange DeCarbon on the 1991 sedan as the Bilstein (B6) HD is seized at the left front as I needlessly mentioned earlier.
Bilstein (B6) HD never again. Terrible. Also, not good for lowered suspensions. And I'll NEVER move to lowered suspension again.
Happy Eggnog Holidays!
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Thu Oct 10 17:46 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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""Bilstein Touring ones"""
I have these in my 87. They have a 'crown' at the top of the strut that limits the kind of Gland Nut that you can use.
I know this because I could not use the stock Volvo gland nuts(the notched ones).
I had to use the gland nuts that came with the struts to fit over that crown.
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Hi Stallison,
The bushing that CB told you about is at the rear of the front control arm. It's NOT, as you seem to think, at the rear of the car, and this bushing is likely your problem.
Peter
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Tue Oct 8 18:10 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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Why are you making another post just like the last post.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1668609/220/240/260/280/replaced_front_strut_cartridges_one_still_making_clunk_compressed_240_struts_clunking.html
Replaced front Strut Cartridges, one still making a clunk when compressed 200 1989
posted by someone claiming to be CB on Sat Oct 5 11:54 CST 2019 [RELATED]
STOP...Don't Take it Apart until you do the following.
YouWrote: ""
There was always a clunk on the passenger's side when going over bumps"""
****First thing to suspect when you have the Clunk Over Bumps on any side is a worn Rear Control Arm bushing.**********
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Sorry CB,
wanted multiple opinions. I am skeptical that its a rear control arm problem. It is very distinct when I go over a bump or somethinkg and its the front end absorbing it, the clunk/slapping noise is heard from the front end.
Sorry to doubt you, it souinds very much like its from the front. But I'm going to examine this weekend further and relay back my findings.
As for tightening the gland nut, I went gorilla style with two pipe wrenches locking that sucker down before putting the spring and everything back on. The only issue was that the new Bilstein Touring shock stuck up about an 1/8th" above the strut housing where the gland nut threads in. So, the gland nut only went down about halfway, but thats how the previous shock was also on both sides. And, like I said, I tightened that gland nut with extreme prejudice!
Thanks,
Stallison
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Thu Oct 10 15:04 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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FYI
If you want multiple diagnosis of your problem, the way to do that is NOT to start another thread, but to add to your existing thread by commenting and thus to bringing the Thread Forward as "NEW".
This let'a readers know that You are still active in the dialogue that YOU began.
Starting another Thread and asking the Same Question/Stating the same Problem, just makes readers here think that you are not interested in any response at all, and are just Spamming the board and thus you will get ignored.
This is why I pointed out that you had already asked the same question a few days ago.
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I apologize CB,
I moved this thread to the overall RWD forum off the 200 series thinking it would garner more responses. Should have replied and kept it going.
Also, I apologize for not recognizing what you meant by rear control arm bushing. Thought you meant something in the rear of the car, not the rear part of the control arm. I believe this to be the problem as the problem side of the car bounces way too much and makes a knock sound over bumps. Unless I improperly installed the shock absorber, hopefully not, it seems to point to this rear bushing failing.
Working it out with due diligence.
Thank you
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Sun Oct 13 19:04 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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IPD Tech page
https://www.ipdusa.com/techtips/10233/suspension-200-series-front-end-clunk
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CB,
Upon taking the strut assembly out, I noticed right away that the bump stop was sitting too low on the shock and not touching the upper seat like the drivers side one that wasn't giving me any problems. It was almost stuck on the non-threaded wider portion of the shock instead of sitting further up on the smaller diameter section of the shock cartidge.
Also, I noticed that I had tightened the top strut nut on the problem side a lot more than on the no-problem side. I'm not sure if this had anything to do with it, maybe not.
But, after completely taking the strut assembly apart, inspecting the shock to see if it was sitting in the strut tube well and making sure the upper and lower seats were fine, I put her back together and did not tighten the top nut too far down on the shock. I pretty much matched the other side and then also made sure the boot was in the uppermost position.
I also made sure the boot was in the proper position, tight to the bottom of the upper seat. I did use another washer between the upper seat and the bottom of the strut bearing mount. So, that made two washers, as there was already a washer between the strut top nut and the top of the bearing mount.
After putting everything together and driving it a bit, viola! The knock, slapping sound was gone and when doing the pushing down on the side of the car over the strut, there was the proper rebound and no slapping, clicking sound any longer!
Not sure exactly what I had done wrong before, if I had over tightened the top nut and that had caused the bump stop to go too far down or what, or if the upper seat and bearing mount had play inbetween them, but it seems to be ok now. Knock on wood it stays that way.
Thanks for your help, my friend.
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