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244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

Good day!

This is my first post on this forum, so please forgive me if it is in the wrong spot.

I have an '89 244 with an M47 transmission which makes a sound of metal hitting metal on engine braking. It only does this on engine braking, and any throttle eliminates it.

I've just replaced the Carrier bearing and bushing and checked all of the driveline U-joints, and they seem fine and the carrier bearing bushing made no difference. I have new engine mounts that I'm going to install to see if that fixes it.

I have a video of it, if that is helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHjLlPPvJLg

Any ideas are greatly appreciated, Thanks!








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    244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

    Good day!

    Sorry for the delay, I've been busy with paperwork with my school starting soon and working.

    It turns out that the sound was the transmission. I pulled the whole thing out and looked in the cover, and sure enough first gear was missing three teeth that made a whack/thunk sound once per revolution. Reverse was also missing half a tooth.

    I've been calling up junkyards to find another transmission, and haven't had much luck. The lynnwood Pick-n-Pull has a rather odd specimen:

    https://www.picknpull.com/vehicle_details.aspx?VIN=YV1AA8243M1453636

    YV1AA8243M1453636

    The website lists it as both a manual and automatic. As far as I can tell, the VIN number lists it as having an M58 five speed. To my knowledge the 50 series was never used for the 200 series. Do any of you know if this is the case?

    Also, if anyone is selling an M47 in the Puget Sound region, let me know.

    Thanks!








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      244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

      The VIN is for a 91 with M47. Dunno where the junkyards get their cross books.

      Sorry about the diagnosis. I would never have guessed it.
      --
      Art Benstein near Baltimore

      Mom's Law: The most expensive part you replaced was the root cause and true culprit when you explain it to Mama.








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        244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

        Hi Art,

        You get a "me too" on that statement of guessing and I mean guessing on where his noise was coming from on the original post!
        Who could ever nail down a whacking noise, during braking, that would be actually missing gear teeth. Braking would be on the opposite side of a tooth from normal power throughput.
        I read that and I said to myself, "shouldn't a person feel something coming up from the shifting stick?"
        It's my experience that while a bearing or bearings are going bad, the stick will rattle long before gears blow up! Or in my cases of the M47's, I recently wrote about, there is some light tapping sounds with a whine long before a knocking whacking sound.

        Three teeth off one gear is a lot of "I don't care" munching.
        When I was growing up, there were non synchronized transmissions around.
        Back then, it was not uncommon to hear people say, when heard someone rolling gears for reverse or clashing upper range gears, " Grind me a pound of that while you're at please!"
        There were lots of people that sure could "butcher" up a transmission!

        My older sister learned to brake with her left foot only, when she learned to drive in high school. Automatics were the new thing of the fifties and sixties.
        According to my brother-in-law, that learn the hard way, She really just could not drive a stick shift! Period! She poised the foot above the brake pedal in town.

        I see the those people on the road today!
        When you see brakes lights going on and off on cars up ahead, but that car never slows down a little bit at all, it's probably a left foot braking person "twitching" to check that foot to be ready, especially, when in heavy traffic!
        I had police officers in my family over the years and they say while investigating accidents, they finally deduce, from the their passengers usually, that the driver uses their left foot to brake!
        Their the ones that drive into building fronts from a parking space.
        The brain seems to get confused "temporarily" and they plunge the gas on.
        They put it in drive like most of the times and look backwards.

        It's a slow motion process altogether.
        Boom!

        I'm glad I don't have that to contend with!
        Have a safe day!

        Phil








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    244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

    I don't envy you, Skorpa, odd sounds can be a bitch to track down in a car.

    I once had a buzz on deceleration. I became convinced I had found it when I noticed that the medallion on the shifter vibrating. No such luck. The more I tried to isolate the sound, the more I thought I needed a trans rebuild.

    Then, one day I happened to reach for the sunroof winder while the buzzing was in full crescendo. It was a harmonic vibration of the knob on the sunroof winder buzzing away at a certain frequency!

    To say the least, I was relieved and I would have felt like an idiot if a couple astute mechanics had not also mistaken the sound as coming from the trans.

    I'll save the story about riding around in the trunk of my first 240 for later. My sweetheart says that if I were to ask her to do that number again, now she would leave me locked in there.

    All things are possible, but any time I have had a failed driveshaft support bearing, they have developed a whining sound at a repeatable road speed.

    I assume you checked the u-joints while the driveshaft was removed. More than once for me, u-joints seemed good while in place only to be obviously queefed out once removed.

    As others have said, if you have one of those dreadful over-the-axle pipes, check its clearance especially along the rear frame "rail". Volvo no longer offers the under-the-axle pipe and the last time I installed an OE Volvo, cat back kit, I remember I had to adjust the axle pipe after it started to knock (only on trailing throttle while making a left turn).

    Life's can be a bitch: while I have a couple OE exhaust kits in my horde and Volvo does still honor their Lifetime Warranty on their replacement MUFFLERS, they no longer offer that unique over-the-axle pipe. So, have a mid-pipe break, install a cat back kit, in toto.

    Please let us know how this shakes out for you.

    Rich (near The Burgh)








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      244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

      Well, as long as we're all just tossing out guesses, here's mine...based on a somewhat similar noise that I just fixed on my car.

      I had a thwacking noise that would start up while engine braking. I went through all of the usual suspects (all suggested here). I checked the exhaust and hangers, looked for ways that the exhaust could bounce against various heat shields, replaced a motor mount (it needed that anyway), replaced transmission mounts (ditto), and looked for signs of various drive shaft (Ujoint, center bearing, etc.) issues. I found nothing that would change the occurrence of the noise. I became convinced that the problem was somehow related to the driveline changing geometry and banging somewhere under there depending on what forces were put on the system.

      To make a long story short, I wound up replacing the torque rods (which as you know, hold the rear axle in a constant angle to the car/driveline)...and the sound is gone and doesn't reoccur. Looking at the rods I took off (which were pretty clearly the 44 year old originals and were distorted and had very shot bushings), I can now easily understand how a combination of engine braking, turning, and road surface could trigger enough movement to cause the driveshaft to start thwacking on the underbody. Somewhere under there.

      It's just a guess, but if all else fails, you may want to check these things by grabbing onto one and seeing if there's any movement...and then likewise with the other. They're a cheap and easy fix if you can find someone who will sell you a pair with good bushings (or you have access to a machine shop that can press in new bushings). And at any rate, if your car is on its original rods and/or bushings, you'd benefit from changing these anyway.

      Good luck and happy hunting!








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    244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

    If you put the car in reverse, firmly set the parking brake, and then give it some gas while starting to engage the clutch, you can replicate the same torque as that created by engine braking. It make it easier to pinpoint the offending engine/exhaust/chassis contact.

    If the motor mounts are really shot might the fan be contacting the inside of the shroud?








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    244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

    Thanks for all the replies and suggestions, I posted this on Swedespeed and got nothing.

    The exhaust could very well be the problem. About two months ago, the pipe connecting the mufflers rested apart and I replaced it with a new one. After I was finished however, I noticed that the exhaust seemed to move about more than usual, but it didn't hit. It was a month later, when I was returning from a 600 mile trip, that it started making this noise.

    Now that I'm home from work I can get to testing all of your suggestions.








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    244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

    Really sounds like thinner metal, like a cracked aluminum heat shield above the cat. On some exhaust systems there's a welded collar at the base of the down pipe that can also break loose. Otherwise I agree with others about a broken/loose exhaust bracket.

    Another thing to check for is a loose cross member, although that usually causes thunking, not vibrations, but can allow others things to get too close together. While you're under there checking the heat shield and shoving the driveshaft and exhaust system around to see if you can get metal to touch metal, do try tightening the cross member bolts as well as the trans mount bolts since the weight of the trans often makes it difficult to detect unless you can get it up on a hoist and get a pry bar in at assorted angles.

    And welcome aboard. We rarely get anybody posting youtube videos of problems, terrific of you to go to that effort and make it a bit easier for us to make guesses based on our experience.
    --
    Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now








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    244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

    I think it sounds like the exhaust system hitting something as well.

    Perhaps you can reach under the car at several different places and see if you can force the (cold) exhaust pipe around and have it make contact with the body or chassis? The first muffler (resonator) is suspended on two rubber rings that will allow things to move around if one fails.

    If a motor or transmission mount is broken engine braking could very well allow the engine and transmission to move around quite a bit. Those three mounts are what keeps the assembly in place, and losing one gives it too much freedom.

    Randy
    --
    Any twenty minute job is just a broken bolt away from a three day ordeal








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    244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

    Exactly the right spot. Welcome Scorpa.

    If it hadn't been for the sound track, I would have guessed an exhaust manifold gasket leak, but now I'm leaning toward the motor/transmission mounting and exhaust pipe adjustment, because the rapping isn't holding a beat.

    Makes you want to get a friend to strap himself under the car while you cruise the avenue. Friend might suggest you acquire or rent "chassis ears" remote microphones. But sounds like you're on the right track renewing those mounts and checking the exhaust pipes. Just wanted to say welcome.
    --
    Art Benstein near Baltimore

    Brickboard members are the most likeable, smartest, and best-looking people on the internet. [Citation needed]








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    244 Whacking sound on engine braking 200 1989

    Hi,

    It’s just a guess and I mean, a guess, on this 5 second video, that it’s a tail pipe knock.
    Sure sounds loud enough!

    Check the bracket on the back of the engine/transmission area. It probably has a broken lower pipe strap or one of two or three bolts are missing from the bracket.

    I’m surprised you do not have a buzz around three thousand rpms if this is a manual shift.

    Another place to look is near the rear muffler. The curled in the exhaust pipe over the or under the axle can hit the body of the car on the edge of the pinch weld. It fits really close back there.
    That is if it sounds like it’s more behind you than up by the seats.

    And yes, weak motor mounts can let things flop excessively let alone bad rubber donuts used to suspend the exhaust system.

    Happy hunting.

    Phil







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