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So there we were, exploring the north rim of the Grand canyon with our new to us 89 245. The body, interior, motor and transmission are in great shape, however the suspension is quite all original.
While I had rebuilt all the moving parts on the front end, gotten the IPD aluminum skid plate and gotten a decent alignment, I knew I had to replace the brake lines, but hadn't gotten around to it before we left. Mostly because we didn't have any decent DOT4 brake fluid (and my last can of super blue is saved for my other car).
I packed a few hand tools, and replacement lines with the intent that if a line failed, we could swap it out. But, the wife, being the ever thinking wife she is asked, "honey, what would we do for brake fluid?"
Now, first, I did not want to bring any brake fluid, even low quality stuff; I was too afraid that in our off-roading (and we did take a few trails that were high clearance 4x4 vehicles only)we would manage to damage the container and it would leak ruining the paint where ever it was we hid it. Therefore, my working theory was that if we got into a pickle and needed to just get home I could add some water to the master cylinder to act as brake fluid. Then, at home, I could swap out all the lines, flush the system...
What do you all think? Could water get you home?
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Late to the party - others have touched on the salient points. Regular brake fluid changes are recommended primarily to get water OUT of the system. What I can't understand is being worried about how some (unlikely) spilled brake fluid might damage paint, but not worried (seemingly) about damage that might occur to the car and passengers from failed brakes. Maybe it's just me.
Save the water for your canteens --- it WILL get your body home during your hike out of the desert.
--
82 242-6.2L; '17 Mazda3; '16 Crosstrek
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As others have WISELY told you, do NOT use water as a substitute for brake fluid.
We only use Castrol brake fluid as they only make a high quality DOT 4.
If you are worried about a leaking brake fluid container, store the bottle inside another container that won't leak.
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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com
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Hi,
I don't think you will want to use straight water as that is one thing you do not want to introduce into the system. Besides water boils at just above 212 degrees Fahrenheit and a little higher under pressure.
Not only does it cause rust but at low stopping speeds the water will turn into "steam" and rapidly increase in volume and pressure!
Since your brake system does not have seals designed to seal off vapor pressure I would hate to guess what will happen next with that combination of scenarios?
Trust me, the change of state of the water, will change the state of your awareness, when it comes to stopping!
If you were really, really desperate you could possibly get away with using straight antifreeze. Not the diluted type with water already! That stuff shouldn't even be on the market, IMHO!
You only want to ever buy the thick stuff, the way it came for years!
Dot 3 or Dot 4 Brake fluid is made of a glycol with a different ethylene called a "Di" ethylene with an added molecule or so? I'm not a chemist!
Both ethylene's absorb water and have higher boiling points right out the gate than water alone!
The "diethylene" in brake fluid absorbs far, far less moisture than the antifreeze one!
Therefore, it is used in our brake systems and won't freeze either!
Next time you plan to go "testosterone trekking" in a "low hanging" vehicle think about trussing up the brake fluid HDP bottle!
Try cutting the top cut off a quart or gallon milk or water jug can work!
They are made of Low Density Polypropylene.
You can stuff cleaning rags around it inside too, for that softer, dryer ride! (:)
Phil
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We'd appreciate you select Model and Year. Helps with the search feature.
DOT 4 brake fluid is what you use. The US federal DOT sets the specification for brake fluid. The world follows.
Walmart SuperTECH brand, ATE blue, Volvo blue, or whatever AutoZone, O'Reilly, Kragen, and what have you with the DOT 4 marked on the bottle. Do not shake the bottle. Yet a few spare pints or a quart or two would be fine in the boot. You can use DOT 3 in a jiffy.
DOT 4 is DOT 4. Anything cheap like at Walmart is very well made by the few quality manufacturers that sell in the USA market.
As for subsequent issues:
You would use a Motive or like pressure bleeder to press or push out the fluid to flush that out and replace with new DOT 4. See my post here (copy and paste URL).
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1662538/220/240/260/280/new_pads_resurface_rotors_hows_brake_fluid_black.html
See here for more information on non-ABS brake as you have on your 1989 240. Same brake fluid bleeding order. Use a pressure bleeder no need to bench bleed the master cylinder.
How many miles? Perhaps a preventative MS replacement? ATE is OEM.
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/Brakes.htm
Brake bleed order non-ABS. It may require 2 or 3 circuits to get all the air out. And at least 1 quart of DOT 4 and maybe two quarts.
Never DOT 5. Never oil or water or DOT 5. I agree with CB and Porkface here. Worrisome.
You mean you want to replace the front four (two left and right) and two rear (one left and right) flexible brake lines? Why? Is the outer rubber hose line cracked? Do you have budging lines?
--
Donate NOW! Give your brickboard.com a big DONATION!!! Find the  on brickboard pages!
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i would walk to the nearest store and buy whatever brake fluid before using water.
water boils faster and the rust possibilities are too high. your safety and worries about possible spillage concerns me. good luck, chuck.
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What Porkface and Blindboy said. You are so concerned about "wasting" your super blue on this car but would consider using water instead of any actual brake fluid (which all come in plastic containers)??? I've been using plain old Castrol GT (even for track days) forever - except for the few containers of Mini-Cooper fluid which my M-C tech son gave me. - Dave
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Water will work a whole lot better than air, just avoid any heavy or sustained braking or it will boil. But you will need to thoroughly flush the system ASAP. Using any kind of oil would damage the seals, requiring a rebuild.
--
1992 745, >500k km (now gone, but not forgotten)
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Thank you all for your responses and concern.
Hopefully none of us every are in need of emergency brake fluid but hopefully that bottled water will get us home!
If I had a little more patience I am sure I could share some pictures. The north rim is pretty amazing. Very desolate; I just looked it up and from our location the walking suggestions to the closest auto parts store was 150 miles... going through the grand canyon!
Thanks again to all!
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I'm guessing I understand your question a little differently than most of those who responded. Let me see if my thoughts meet up with yours:
You are (were) planning to use a 30-year-old car in rough service, such as off-road, to visit a place from where it might cost more than you could sell it for to have it extricated by towing, should there be any need, so you are trying to pick and choose what to have on hand.
Saving space/weight where you can, anything that might do double duty "in a pickle" could be the right choice over separate items, fluids especially. Spending the night on the canyon rim, you might have some time to let your imagination wander.
For the brake system, you worry that a single failure, while backed up by the dual diagonal two-circuit configuration of the 89 245 might be unduly taxed by the descent into civilization. So what could you use.
Assuming you could somehow repair the leak, or broken line, Machine Man's suggestion of undiluted ethylene glycol seems like the best choice, but you wouldn't bring that with you either, because the cooling system emergency could be cared for with drinking water. Now you're down to engine oil, which I assume you would pack, or ATF, which exists in enough volume the transmission wouldn't miss a pint for the ride down the mountain.
Now, there's one brake failure that won't be restricted to just one circuit. No, it isn't the master, as you might think at first, but a front caliper. If the front caliper sticks and drags on the rotor, and you don't recognize that it is, the brake fluid (especially if old and waterlogged) can boil just cruising with your foot on the gas (or coasting) and boil in BOTH circuits. The pedal will go to the floor. You won't have ANY foot brakes until it cools off.
So, to plan for ripping a line during off-roading is one thought, but if by lack of maintenance a caliper is sticky, the prevention is done before you leave instead of by packing parts.
Let's say the stars align to the devil's advantage, you rip a line, can and do replace it, and you need to get down the mountain pronto, no DOT 4 in your pack. Whatever substitute fluid you add would combine with the DOT 4 left in the lines for the other two calipers to bleed the one with the ripped line. The amount depends on how many times the pedal got used after the line ripped.
So if the ripped flex hose got caught before the reservoir half emptied, you might only need two ounces of incompressible hydraulic fluid to push the air out after your repair. Anything would work to get you down the mountain, but depending on exactly what and how much, you might be looking at a complete replacement of master, octopus, both regulators, six hoses, and four calipers to be safe again.
Then again, I agree with all of the other response, including the one suggesting insanity. :) One other comment. I realize no one could help taking photos, but none I have ever seen holds a candle to the actual experience. Congratulations for achieving it!!
My daughter had our 89 245 in Yellowstone when the tank pump crapped out. Actually it probably had crapped out thousands of miles before that, but wasn't really needed until the temps reached 90 and she got above Denver's altitude. Had to limp it across Wyoming to find a shop to fix it. Since then, about 12 years ago, all our 240's get the tank pump checked at oil change time.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Money can’t buy happiness, but it sure makes misery easier to live with.
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I was gonna say what Art said.
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82 242-6.2L; '17 Mazda3; '16 Crosstrek
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“... from our location the walking suggestions to the closest auto parts store was 150 miles... going through the grand canyon!...”
Watch first step. It’s a big one!
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