Can the A/C condenser be flushed on a 1993 240 (R134 system)?

The internet A/C gurus say that condensers in newer car won't submit to flushing and must be replaced. My '93 240 suffered a catastrophic compressor failure and I wonder if, at 26-years-old, it is considered un-flushable.

I "bought" a new condenser on eBay which turned out to be NLA when it came time for the seller to send it off. So, I have to use the original one (unless some one out there has an NOS condenser for a '93 240 for sale).

Thanks, one and all,
Rich (near The Burgh)

Thanks for the all responses to my question.

Truthfully, I am filled with trepidation because I have never worked on an AC system before and I am concerned about what was left by the "tech" who botched a simple recharge job.

So, here is my game plan:

1/ Evacuate the system.

2/ Remove compressor, accumulator and orifice valve.

3/ Thoroughly flush components which will be reused. (I bought an air compressor and fitted a DIY dryer for this aspect of the project).

4/ Refit components and draw down the system. I bought a Sanden SD7H15 compressor (correct footprint, no gauge ports) to replace the original Seltec compressor and a 4 Seasons Accumulator (P/N 33112).

5/ Suck down system and fill with R134A by weight through the sole service port.

If I'm missing anything, I would sure as hell would appreciate the "voice of hard-won experience" from anyone who has done this dance.

Thanks, one and all.

Rich (near the Burgh)

Just commenting on general topic flushing the condenser because I'm not sure what type yours is - tube/fin, serpentine or parallel-flow/multi-flow. Only the first two could be flushed out. The parallel-flow/multi-flow types uses very small internal pipings having tendency to trap wear particles permanently. Products like brake cleaner, carb cleaner, denatured alcohol, degreasers (eg Simple Green) should not be used for flushing, although ultimately its up to the owner to use what he wants. Yes I've seen worse - people using detergent! Best leave this flushing to professionals.

Amarin.

Flush with Acetone.

Hi,

Acetone is a petroleum solvent that is pretty high up the chain harsh cleaning and thinning agents like lacquer thinner.
The next one, in my book of hardware store listing that will get your nostrils and brain cooking is Methyl Ethyl Ketones.

I think I would stay below both of those groups just for the sake of brain power.

Back in my day, before the worry of the “chlorine atom-bull plops,” we used a water chiller refrigerant called R-11.
Chillers are use in places like shopping malls, that are for high temperature range cooling, that's large tonnage Air Conditioning. Very low working pressures saves compressing energy!
Now, they are looking into using Super Critical Liquid Carbon Dioxide as a refrigerant?
The opposite end of the spectrum?

Anyway,
You had to get that stuff up above a decent room temperature to make it change from liquid to a vapor.
At one place I worked we had a clean room and in it was a lid covered vat that was heated slightly
I could take my safety glasses off and wave them just under the lid. The glasses were cooler and the R-11 would condense on them.
It literally washed or rinsed away everything from them. They even came out very dry and a little whiteish. It looked like it could take the oil out of the plastic, almost?

What I’m getting at is, each product has this vapor pressure point, in which it boils off!
This point will be reached very quickly under a vacuum and at very low heat level.
We know we don’t won’t water because it freezes in expansion devices and we don’t want other gases in the system.
Just going after the water boiling point, we are way above any low pressure solvent!
Another reason to evacuate is because of Dalton law of compressed gases. Any two or mores gases the pressures add together!
On a balanced side system like CCOT, let’s say, it’s not favorable!

The liquid filled vat was at atmospheric pressure under that lid. Just like an automotive parts washer.
A cloud of vapor forms, it absorbs or thins the oil out to make it light enough to float with the vapors.

The idea is to move something around a fluid, like a river of water to push out debris!
The pressure behind the fluid is the working force against the debris.
But in turn, as it has to dissolve oil in the solution, we want it to take and itself out of the system!

So IMHO, you can used any solvent that’s fluid, has a low evaporation point! It needs to go away out to the atmosphere, via the pump and not harm your brains!

Acetone just might harm hoses or a crankshaft seal if in a flooded contact situation. That’s Not likely here but remember vapors travel!
The green “O” rings come with a list of acceptable petroleum compatibility, that they can withstand so, that might be a good guideline, for a food for thought?

I have about $8.00 a gallon of automotive parts cleaning solvent, that I will use on my 1991 very soon!
It evaporates faster than kerosene and leaves no film like a kerosene but depending on the amount of cleaning needed, I would not hesitate to use one behind the other for that river effect!

I will see how it works to flush accumulator desiccant out of my system.
It’s plugged my orifice screen once and I suspect another blockage elsewhere has occurred?

We shall hide and watch!
Wait, I can’t hide? (:)

Phil

I have used denatured alcohol to flush condensers and evaporators. It is much cheaper than the "pro solvents" so I buy it by the gallon, and flush until the fluid is clear. I figure the vaac pump will boil out all vestiges of the alcohol.
Opinions? Also, I just rebuilt a 93 240 AC, and for the second 240 rebuild, used a 7 cylinder Sanden compressor. I have come to believe these are much better than the Chinese compressors available everywhere.

"My '93 240 suffered a catastrophic compressor failure and I wonder if, at 26-years-old, it is considered un-flushable."
The reason to have an A/C system flushed is usually because the compressor burnt out creating and leaving acids in the system. But that involves a compressor with an electric motor.

So it is unlikely your car compressor burnt any refrigerant and left acidic residue behind.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.

Hi Trevor,

You are absolutely correct in the aspects of electric motor burnouts!
It is the very reason why if that happens to domestic refrigerators get tossed!
Unless it’s one of those outrageously expensive built-models and the owners appear to have got the bucks, then a good repairman will get to give it a go.

In those cases an acid neutralizer kit is put in so the work can be warranted against a repeated event.
The technician with the most skills and experience will be left to do that job.
Same goes with commercial refrigeration. They have an apprentices to work with him, in the best shops!
Vocational high school classes have truly “taken a dump” in the last 30 years in our country!

The thing the OP should only be concern with the oil having circulated some real fine metal particles.
This is a orifice system and checking the screen on it will be the first heads-up!
In a lot of cases, if it’s clear, the compressor outlet screen may have the real serious stuff!

That ALL depends on how catastrophic, the catastrophe was!
Sometimes a streak of liquid charge gets back to the compressor and after few bam-bams of that, it breaks everything before it can circulate.
Unfortunate for the compressor but fortunate for the owner.
A lot depends, if there was noise from it, for quite awhile or not!

He did state it had a lot of years and the desiccant package bag/container may have split open.

I have a 1991 with that issue right now!
I found a dark brownish lumpy dust filling up the orifice screen.
The desiccant that I’m use to seeing is white so the oil made have made it very dark.

Mine is still a R-12 refrigerant system and I suspect it to be all original!
The powder in it must have spread through the compressor and clogged the orifice screen.
I expect the compressor has not faired well and might have to inspected, cleaned or just out right replaced for good measure. This will be a summer project soon.
I bought two accumulator cans, on sale, during the winter.
I own three consecutive years, including the ‘91.
The 1993, I don’t trust to be identical, as many things on that car, are unique to that year!
So, at the time, I didn’t gamble with the sale, nor, it not being returnable after storage.

The old accumulator will definitely get cut opened, first thing, to verify my prediction that they do eventually fail.
On the mid 1970’s Chevy Corvettes you could replace that bag or package from the bottom of a look-a-like accumulator can!
This of course is, after you found it, way up, behind the right front wheel well! It’s almost or is considered, to me, inside the firewall!
The first an last Corvette I ever worked on and I know why I was asked, now!

If I remember correctly, that filter was still on the high side of the system, but I could be wrong.
That was the normal place to put the dryer in my days! It was supposed to trap the condensable there and especially, the compressor contamination before it can enter an expansion device!
I really don’t like these “orifice” expansion device systems versus the TXV for several other reasons!

He, the OP, will be very wise to do this also with the compressor exchange costs!
In fact, it might be that if he does not to do this, is a warranty exit clause!

Nice to hear from you Trevor.
The board seems to be a little lonely lately.
I have been stepping out of my shell into the 900’s.
I get messed up with them though, I don’t know them at all, except for a few in the junkyards!

Phil

"Nice to hear from you Trevor. The board seems to be a little lonely lately."
Hey, it's finally warmed up and the days are bright longer. Get out there and do stuff. Leave the tome writing for the darker colder wetter days.

I've only worked with orifice systems. Quite reliable as long as you have a large filter in them.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.

Hi Trevor,

Where can you put a filter and what did you use?
The liquid line filters are long but do the fittings work as they are?

It definitely needs one because, for me it’s a bunch of bunk, to have the orifice screen get plugged up.
The screen might as well have been left out as the results are the same.

Phil

"Where can you put a filter and what did you use?"
Hmm, you've got me there. I don't have A/C installed in my 80-245. I fixed my sister's 89-245, but don't remember the setup.

The filter-drier is inserted in the liquid line. Usually right before the orifice tube in home refrigeration systems. (The orifice tube is inserted into the exit of the filter-drier.) So assuming the orifice tube is copper, I'd insert and solder the filter-drier there. But since some filter-driers have threaded ports one could insert it where there are already threaded joins eg. liquid receiver? (Sorry don't have a Volvo A/C diagram or photo.)
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.

Hi Trev,

The 240 didn't get the "clogging orifice" (CCOT) until '91, still on R12, so the device dropping the pressure in your sister's '89 was the old thermal expansion valve fastened to the evaporator inlet. It's liquid line has a receiver/dryer with a sight glass just above the condenser's outlet.

With the CCOT systems came the huge suction accumulator, where the drying agent is included, keeping liquid from slugging the compressor if not overfilled. In the suction line. No receiver/dryer. No filter in front of the orifice tube screen.

I'm not familiar with the '93, when R134a was introduced, but have heard on the boards the muffler in the condenser inlet line is no longer used. But it was just that, a muffler, not a filter. Whole lot more difficult to add in a filter to automotive AC unlike brazing in dryers to copper plumbing.

--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"Well, here we are, Mr. Pilgrim, trapped in the amber of this moment. There is no why." -KV

Hi,

It’s the first I have heard of something like this.
The darn thing has to pass gas and liquid refrigerant, so, what part of a flushing solvent with an inert high velocity gas pressure behind it be so impossible.

I have a problem with the word submit?
Maybe it means the fittings used to hook it up to clean when compared to other 240’s.
It’s not like you are using a thin push rod for a car’s radiator tubes.
These are round, aren’t they?
I will have to remember to look at mine on the car sometime.

The 1993 year saw quite a few unique changes that no other 240’s got the chance to have because it was the last year of production.
The Movements of components around in the engine bay is one, missing the jumper wire to the starter solenoid and the rounded tooth timing belt to name a few.

I would ask the vendor who you got this information from, is it the same for the 900 series that followed?

Something appears to be bogus to help sell condensers or get out of doing the service work due to the waste by product.
When it blows clear into a white rag it’s clean to me.

I’ll try to watch for more answers.

Phil