Before I start, I should state that I am *not* a good mechanic, my knowledge and skills are quite limited but I've gotten everything done in the past just fine, learning as I go.

Hello, BB. I feel like you are my last hope by now. I have asked around so many places, I've tried a lot of things but nothing so far has helped at all.

Let's start with my symptoms:

I drove my beloved 240 (B200F, M45 manual box) the night before the problem. It was indeed quite wet that day and some snow & slush on the ground too. I drove around, came back home and parked. Next morning I tried to start it, it tries to start but only coughs a bit every now&then, won't fire up. I ran out of battery.

First thought that crossed my mind was fuel pump relay, so I bought a new one. Nothing. However, we got the car to run at least, it needed to be started with cables as my battery was dead and I have no charger + I don't think my battery has enough kick anymore to start it in this condition.

So we got the car running, it was quite a rough start and needed to be held at ~1.5k rpm's for a bit so it wouldn't die. After that however, it ran on idle like nothing is wrong.

That was a month ago, since then I've tried many things but it's always the same. Startup is quite rough and once it idles, it idles like new. It accepts some gas, I have no tach so I'm not sure but I'd say at about 2k-2.5k rpm's it will just choke and die unless I let off the gas. I let the gas off and it will idle again, with zero issues. (EDIT: Sometimes, rarely though, it backfires when applying that 2+k rpm's)



Here's some stuff I've swapped:

*Fuel Pump Relay
*Fuel filter, if there are 2 filters, the one I changed is the one at the rear&under the car, next to the fuel pump
*All fuses that I deemed have anything to do with the engine/car running, none were blown though
*Spark plugs, didn't change cables
*Distributor cap + rotating arm
*Air filter
*Crank sensor, old cable was damaged, still no difference

I've searched for vacuum leaks, haven't found any at least yet.

I think I need to mention the car also had the timing belt swapped ~1k miles ago. I got it done in a reputable mechanic shop because I don't trust my own skills with that job.

Excuse the wall of text. I hope someone out there took the time to read it and maybe has some knowledge that could help. Willing to paypal some beer money for whoever can help me fix this mess :P Thanks - Christian

What do you mean chokes on gas? Too much or too little gasoline?

A 1988 240 with B200F (not Turbo)? Replaced the crank position sensor?

Bosch LH-Jetronic 2.4 with Bosch EZK116 as you have a Crank Position Sensor?

See this in your engine bay?



https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineOBDCodes.htm

Perform the "1. Diagnostic Test Mode 1: Fault Code Retrieval"

You are in Italy or the UK?

Do you have EGR?

The CHECK ENGINE dash light is illuminated?

You can find the PDF of the "Volvo Problem Solver Advanced Edition" as 81242DLB21FCA suggests here.

http://www.brickinfo.co.uk/Trouble%20Shooting%20Guides/Volvo%20Problem%20Solver%20Advanced%20Edition-1.pdf

Thanks.
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I mean it chokes as in if you hit the throttle hard, it will simply cut out completely, it just completely dies and returns back to idle unless you try to keep it on throttle. Seems like it isn't getting enough fuel. Yes, non turbo B200F, no check engine light and no error codes from the diagnosis tool in the engine bay. I have no EGR, not from italy or UK. Edit: Yes, it does have a crank sensor, I changed that to a brand new one. The old cable from the sensor was quite bad, it definitely had damage but brand new bosch sensor didn't do anything at all to help

I've been suggested by people that it could be my main fuel pump, if my in-tank pump is perfoming as should but my main pump is either completely dead or at least not performing healthy at all, it could lead to these symptoms, long start because it's only getting gas from 1 pump not designed for the task at all and runs good at idle since it does receive enough fuel for that, but dies on gas again because the in-tank pump cannot feed it nearly enough gas to keep it running past that threshold. Oddly enough yesterday when I was messing around with the car, starting it again (which as usual took maybe 20 seconds on the key until it fired up), the main pump made zero noise or vibrations when it initially started up and only started whining and vibrating after almost 5 minutes of the car running, even when I did give it some gas every now and a then in that 5 mins. I'm pretty sure I should be expecting for the mainpump to start the second I hit the starter? Maybe this theory makes no sense but for me, right now, it makes the most sense out of everything but I will check it more in-depth later today. New pump is pretty cheap, so almost might as well give it a shot..

Many thanks for the link by the way, awesome!

Hi,

Yes, I Believe it is probably the main pump, especially, if it still has black gunk on it that looks like the under coating on the body of the car.
That would make it the Original pump!

New or old...... If you get another pump make sure to make good power connections.
They are known to get corrosion in them or if the pump is not old, the connections do not get done nicely by most of the previous mechanics.

You do know that you can make the pumps run by jumping two fuses in the fuse panel to make them run without cranking or running the engine, don’t you?
If not, try cleanflametrap.com for information on your specific car year.

I do have a problem with the idea that the lift pump, in the tank, can make the car run at all too!

I would bite that the main pump is not putting out enough volume or pressure if it’s turning real slow or the output check valve is shot!
If the pump cannot build up any head pressure the pump will run a whole lot quieter and it will be hard to start all the time, after it sets.

A bad check valve will cause all the problems of sound and output plus the really hard to start issue of an empty fuel rail. About 30 years ago You could buy the separately it for about $11.
If the pump is bad keep the check valve off of it for a spare.
After you get it off blow through it in only one direction to test it.
The spring inside wears out from rubbing the inside the housing with one coil.
The one I had go out was a premature thing at the time and I would say it was a rare thing that happens.
Another thing that can do a similar thing is the Fuel Pressure Regulator that’s not holding the pressure up.
It can get too low by letting too much fuel return to the gas tank.

Phil

Hey, I found the problem. It was a lucky hit but I finally found the problem. No idea how it happened basically over night but the car run with zero issues after fixing it. I went out to take the fuel pump assembly out (the thing that has the pump + fule filter attached to it) and i noticed one of the fuel lines was really, really BENT. I thought wait a second.. this doesn't look right at all. It was bent right after the fuel filter and badly so. I straightened it up and voila, ran like brand new and I could just hear the flow of juice, it was the best sound i've heard in ages. I decided to be sure and test bending it again to where it was and yup, the same problem.

So, I was going to pull the whole pump out and replace it, but ended up finding the problem elsewhere. I did buy some parts without the need but I don't mind, now I have new parts in the grandpa!

Thank you for your efforts to help though!

Hi,

Glad to hear that you found the problem.
I guess it the pump cannot WORK to move fuel through its noise would be much less.

If you could have put an ampere meter on that circuit you would have seen it drawing less current than when it does when it moves fuel around the whole circuit back to the tank!
But who knows those things and I bet there are no specifications to be found either?
WATTAGE goes up when there is more WORK being performed!
Amps times voltage is a wattage number, even if it’s only a few tenths of an ampere the number gets more relevant.

I have never notice where a line can get bent into a kink on the output.
Was it on the suction side?
Sure would be nice to see a picture of that location!

Phil

Yes, the check valve and fuel pressure regulator should be checked out. It is a good idea before condemning the main pump to test the fuel pressure at the rail. Also, have you pulled the vacuum hose off the fuel rail and checked for raw gas or strong fumes? That is symptomatic of a bad FPR. A new fuel pressure regulator is a lot cheaper than a new main pump and easier to replace. The main pump rarely fails on Volvos.

BTW - Did you test the operation of the in-line pump? If the little hose breaks or comes off the in-line pump it will run but the main pump will be starved for fuel. On 240’s it’s much more likely that the in-line pump will go south before the main. Those Bosch main pumps are pretty robust. When I sold my 90 240 the main pump had over 300k on it and was still going. My 95 850’s (also with a Bosch pump) was still going strong at 251k.


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Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....

Try doing a search on the internet for "Volvo Problem Solver Advanced Edition".

You mention the battery several times, did you get it load tested and charged to see if it's any good?
Dan

Runs just the same on a brand new good battery but yeah, my own battery is pretty weak, doesn't help when it's already starting up bad.

Starting up badly could be because you don't have a good enough battery to turn the engine over and run the electronics that keep it running!
Dan

Like I mentioned to the other person, it starts and runs just as bad with a brand new-ish good battery

OK, good luck with your problem!

Did the mechanic do any other work?

Change the seals on the front of the engine?

Anything else?

Your symptoms sound like a problem with the mass air sensor plug - which I had on one of our 740s.

This plug gets undone whenever the air filter is changed or checked - it is one of the few plugs that are ever messed with on a routine basis.

If you unplug it, look at the plug's female pins - one may be pushed back and not making a good connection.

If that is the problem, pull the rubber boot back on the rear of the plug and push the pin back in place - I made a line across the wires when the pins are in their proper place. When you push the plug back on to the air sensor, hold the wires so that the pin does not push back. Put the rubber boot back.

While it is unplugged, try to start the car - if your car runs the same or better, your problem is probably in that area. Note, is the sensor is changed, it may take several trips for it, as the computer in the car may have to adjust to the new signal.

Have you looked at the 700/900 FAQ at this site? - it is VERY comprehensive. Many of the topics relate to your car as well.

Try the FAQ menu on the left - Engine: fuel injection - Air mass meter diagnosis.

When we had our '88 745 GLE serviced the tech told me that it would run forever as it had a 240 engine.

Have you considered taking it to a dealer? - I have had 9 cars serviced at my dealer and have NEVER had to replace more than one part when the cars had a problem. In over 750,000 miles driven by 4 drivers, we have had only3 breakdowns.

Dealer service is expensive, so is changing parts for a month.

Hey, thanks for the tip however it's very unlikely to be a MAF issue. I've done some more digging and right now the leading theory is that my main fuel pump is pretty much done for and only my in-tank pump is working. That would explain a lot of the issues, bad, long startup time because the in-tank pump has to do all the work pushing the gas, which it's not designed for at all so it takes quite a bit for it to get enough fuel moving to start up, after that it does feed enough fuel for nice steady idle and just a bit of gas but any more than maybe 2k rpm's worth of gas leads to it not feeding enough juice and it dies.

Atleast to me it makes some sense, and I've asked a couple of mechs and they think it's a pretty solid next step to check.

In fact I don't know if it is normal but I doubt it, but I noticed my main fuel pump doesn't make a sound when you startup the car and idle it, no sound, no vibrations what so ever. Giving it gas does nothing either, but after a while it will start whining and vibrating, this takes a long time after startup, maybe up to 5 mins. I don't think the in-tank pump is ever supposed to do work alone, it's only designed to transfer fuel from the tank to the main pump and no more which leads me to believe my main pump might be pretty much dead. I've had 2 740's in the past btw, those never let me down. This is my first 240 and it sadly did but they're old cars. I won't be going back to 240's, I will probably sell this when I fix it and go back to 740 or 940.