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Hi All,
I have another issue. As always, I could use your help and guidance. Thank you.
The car starts and runs fine for 10 minutes and dies. No start after that, I have to wait then it starts fine. It sounds like a bad fuel pump relay. Right? I put a backup relay and still the same symptom. I don't remember if my backup relay is good or not. I am going to place an order. Are there any other things that I need to look into?
Q1. Can a bad or failing MAF/AMM cause the problem?
Q2. There is a slight air leak at the intake hose/expansion bellow, can that cause the engine to die?
Q3. Can dying main fuel pump cause it?
A quick overview
328,518 miles
battery fully charged and ground point is clean
the throttle body and the idle control valve is clean
the flametrap is clean
the "Bosch" main pump, 64,000 miles and four years old
the "IPD" in-tank pump, 160,000 miles and seven years old
the fuel filter has over 30,000 miles three years old
driver side fuses are good and rolled
the blade fuse is good
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Hi All,
The problem was the Autozone ignition coil. I bought it last Sep.
The resistance between the terminal 1 and the center tower was over 12000 ohms. Now, the car runs fine without any issue.
Thank you as always.
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Hi All,
It turns out the problem still exist. Here are a few things I did.
1. unplugged the AMM/MAF, still no start
2. jumped main and in-tank pump, they are running.
3. unplugged #1 plug wire, no spark, tried 2 times.
4. unplugged the wire from distributor cap, saw a strong spark on the first crank, no spark after that. I saw 1 spark out of three attempts.
5. I haven't bought a starter fuel so no testing is done.
I think my car died last Oct for the same reason. The timing belt jumped because it was loose and was going fast. I will conduct more test and report back. Thank you as always.
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I had the same symptom with the wife's 87. What I did was flip up the rear seat and disconnect the the connector for the fuel pump.
With a volt ohm meter test the resistance on the wiring going to the pump while it is cold. It was pretty solid, I think the spec is between 1 to 3 ohms.
Next I started it and drove around the neighborhood a bit. Then I pulled it into the driveway and let it idle until it died. When that happened I reread the pump resistance, it was now very high nearly open. Confirming a bad pump.
--
Bruce S. near D.C.
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Hi Sb,
As to Q#3, I'm not completely sure on this, but I think the main pump may have a thermal cut-out.
I bought a 240 with a stalling problem. The owner told me that the car would consistently die after a few minutes at idle, and then restart after a few minutes more. She said the car would not die if it was run at 30 mph or more.
I bought the car and the problem turned out to be a failed FPR causing the pump to run unregulated at a very high pressure. My guess was that the hard working pump had insufficient cooling from low fuel flow at idle, and this triggered a thermal switch. All faults were cleared after replacing the FPR. Hopefully someone else will confirm or deny the existence of this switch.
regards, Peter
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Hi Steve, it's been awhile!
Sure sounds like the rear window defog switch is running the engine! After activated it stays on that long! (:) just kidding!
You have some good ideas floating out there from other posters but I keep trying to think what would time out like that and ended up with that above.
But seriously I like a loose PIN connection on the AMM, especially, if one gone pushed back up inside the connector.
I too had your thought of a bad relay and again it would have to be an overheating coil that when its gets hot enough to drop out the magnetism. That might explain the cooling off period and so forth.
I'll say it would be a rare duck of a relay if it was but we know about those solder joints.
When I was 16 I had a "generator," on an Italian made Harley-Davidson motorcycle, that had a field winding do that!
It drove me crazy having the idiot light coming on so regularly.
It turn out to be bad wire connection joint, that sprung apart, when the engine got hot and it shutdown the power output. I Resoldered it and all was good from then on!
I was going to ask you to feel the ignition coil for excessive heat, but I have no idea what's too hot?
They do run warm and with engine heat I have no idea past that. Again it might be really rare!
Try putting on some test lights on the coil, like Art showed recently in a post, it might help.
Other than that, I'm stumped too!
Phil
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If it is heat related, it might be the ignition amplifier near the battery. You could try adding a CPU heat sink onto it. Try cooling it with an ice cube to see if the idle improves.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.
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Hi Trevor,
I see you are approaching almost 5,000 posts in your profile. That's amazing!
Just a note for you or anyone else out there.
The 1987, (USA models) does not use a power amplifier relay to the ignition coil.
Volvo didn't start using them until the LH 2.4 of 1989 that uses a CPS device to pick up timing off the flywheel. The whole ignition system got moved to the cabin.
Of course, if you want to get hung up on changes, from the not so older cars in the previous years, try keeping up with the 1993 240's.
This year car just keeps on surprising me.
Yesterday, I noticed that the wiring harness no longer has the red wire, back by the firewall, near engine oil checking stick!
It is used to roll the starter over and by pass the ignition switch.
I have been telling people about it and low and be hold, now its gone!
Another thing is, the headlight dipper relay is on the other side of the car too! Now, that been on the drivers side since the beginning of the 240's.
Maybe the ABS designer didn't want to be crowded or something?
Anyways, looks like Steve found a cracked fuse, of all things. Sure had me stumped too!
Phil
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Hi All,
Hey Phil, yes, I have been busy working and less time for fun!
So, I swapped out the fuse for the main fuel pump by the drive side foot area. I think that fixed the problem. I guess. There is a hairline crack by where the conical shape turns into a flat bar.
I am going to put back the old fuse and run the car until it dies. I will measure the temperature and resistance too. It might take some time, but I will get back to you guys.
As always, thank you.
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Hi,
I suppose that's close enough to a broken wire inside a generator.
I myself have being cracked, but not broken, for short periods of time!
I just say, it's a glitch in my software.
(:-)
Volvos are not overly sophisticated in computers, so we are stuck with finding mechanical thing!
I think it's still a good thing for my wallet, since I'm so cheap per hour!
Phil
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It is true that one can drive an '87 240 across town with nary a fuse in the fuse panel inside the car. That is, if you don't get into an accident or pulled over for no brake lights.
The main pump fuse is the one outside in the weather under the hood-fender opening, and the fuse itself is rarely a problem, while its holder and the surrounding wiring is always a problem. A poor connection there could heat up after ten minutes of driving and leave you without fuel injection.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
When you get a bladder infection urine trouble.
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Sun Mar 17 01:01 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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HiHo there.
If you could see a crack in the fuse...then odds are that is the problem.
Don't even bother putting it back in for a "test".
--Replace the other fuse, for the in-tank pump, and the under hood 25Amp fuse.
Those ceramic fuses can fail, even if they look visually OK, and you can actually see the fault. Why do you think Volvo added those 4 spaces to hold extra fuses at the bottom of the panel.
A small hole in bellows would not cause what you describe.
Cheers
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When it doesn't start that's what you need to find.
--
Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
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Hi aleekat,
Thank you, that helps. It clear things up!
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Good starting place!
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....
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In an effort to figure out a route to chase- When it stalls and won't start what happens if you give it a good shot of starting fluid directly into the intake and then try to start it?
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Hi Randy,
Next time, if this does happen again. Where do I inject some starter fuel?
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I would take the large hose loose from the throttle body and open the throttle plate (butterfly). Then spray right through the throttle body into the intake. Two or three seconds sounds about right.
Then replace the hose and crank it over.
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I would simply take a small vacuum hose off the manifold and give it a quick shot of carb cleaner. It will only take a small amount to know if the cylinders will fire. -- Dave
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Checking ignition...
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
I stayed up all night to see where the sun went, and then it dawned on me.
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Checking ignition...
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
hiccup
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Hi SB,
Hope all is well and you are enjoying life in FLA!
That’s a tough problem to diagnose. One quick suggestion I can give you is to check the AMM plug. Make sure it is properly seated and there are no broken prongs.
Failing FPR? IAC? Maybe the O2 sensor? The intake bellows is a possibility if the leak is bad enough. Check thoroughly for vacuum leaks.
No OBD in 87’s, right? So no engine codes...
Good luck!
Jim
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....
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Hi Jim,
I checked the AMM pins. They are OK. Thank you!
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I've had this a few times and it's usually been a clogging the fuel filter.*
It runs at idle and dies after a few minutes; wait and it restarts; repeat.
I've had to drive a couple of cars home this way - slow speeds, coasting, ...
A bad IAC can cause a start, stall, start, stall, ..... but it usually isn't 10 minutes between them.
A bad MAF is usually start, stall, start, stall with just a few seconds running between.
*I had a 240 a few years ago that did start, stall, start, stall, ... driving but would run at idle forever. It got worse; I limped home with it and changed the fuel filter. It was fine for a couple of months; then started having the problems again ...
I blew some fine sand-like material out of the fuel filter so pulled the sender for an inspection. The tank had a 1/4"+ layer of sand on the bottom. I pulled the tank, added some pea gravel and soapy water, rocked it back and forth, let it sit, repeat .....
I'd had to do that with some old trucks I'd gotten going after they were in storage ~30 years.
--
240 drivers / parts cars - JH, Ohio
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Hi Jon,
You have a good point.
Although, I don't think that's the cause. I have changed fuel filters six times during my 8 years of ownership. I think there is no more dirt left in the gas tank. :) I saw with my own eyes. The IPD fuel pump did a good job picking up all kinds of dirt and debris.
As always, thank you.
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